IR35 CEST tool help :(

[scoobysnacks2021]

Thanks for helping guys, I never got to see what they put on their end . I just wanted to get it complete. I'm deemed outside so look like I just have to suck it on it until it goes pear shaped . I never like did like pear drops

[ladymuck]

Make sure you ask them to confirm. If you fill it in wrong, the client doesn't bother checking and then there is a disagreement further down the line the client is going to try pin it on you. I mean I'm guessing here but if you fill it in wrong, they don't check and then give you an incorrect SDS they'll be on the hook should the worst happen and if your answer is the one that breaks the system they'll try and pass the buck.

Absolutely no idea if that's what will happen but the responsibility to ask questions which could invalidate the SDS doesn't sit comfortably with me. Probably overthinking it as usual but a few minutes to apply the proper diligence will be worth it. Who knows what could happen in this area further down the line.

Hence why both JB and I advocate for getting a signature on it.

[northernladuk]

fill it in, send them (client) the answers, and ask them to confirm that they agree

Make sure you ask them to confirm. If you fill it in wrong, the client doesn't bother checking and then there is a disagreement further down the line the client is going to try pin it on you. I mean I'm guessing here but if you fill it in wrong, they don't check and then give you an incorrect SDS they'll be on the hook should the worst happen and if your answer is the one that breaks the system they'll try and pass the buck.

Absolutely no idea if that's what will happen but the responsibility to ask questions which could invalidate the SDS doesn't sit comfortably with me. Probably overthinking it as usual but a few minutes to apply the proper diligence will be worth it. Who knows what could happen in this area further down the line.

[jamesbrown]

That is basically the only way forward. Get them to sign agreement or indicate where they disagree and take it from there.

Exactly this. What you want is a copy of the CEST completed from both perspectives with the same answers and signed by both parties.

[ladymuck]

fill it in, send them (client) the answers, and ask them to confirm that they agree

That is basically the only way forward. Get them to sign agreement or indicate where they disagree and take it from there.

[Lance]

This. Absolute joke they are asking you to do it. Makes a shambles of what is a pretty poor system to start of with. G and H are just complete guesswork as you don't know what the client will do. Bearing in mind RoS was one of the pillars as well and has been considered a sham for a long time it's daft they are asking you what the client might do without even seeing a contract.

fill it in, send them (client) the answers, and ask them to confirm that they agree

[northernladuk]

To be brutally frank, you can't accurately or honestly answer any of those questions, since they are all dependent on the contract you haven't seen and, more critically, answers to the last two which are outside your control anyway. So basically you can answer whatever sounds right, you wind up with an outside gig and when it's proven to be wrong it's the client that gets to pay the bills.

That, however, is not the best way to play it!

This. Absolute joke they are asking you to do it. Makes a shambles of what is a pretty poor system to start of with. G and H are just complete guesswork as you don't know what the client will do. Bearing in mind RoS was one of the pillars as well and has been considered a sham for a long time it's daft they are asking you what the client might do without even seeing a contract.

[malvolio]

yes but they don’t provide their part until I complete the survey first . Such a backwards process. What is the normal route for those questions above as a layman ?

To be brutally frank, you can't accurately or honestly answer any of those questions, since they are all dependent on the contract you haven't seen and, more critically, answers to the last two which are outside your control anyway. So basically you can answer whatever sounds right, you wind up with an outside gig and when it's proven to be wrong it's the client that gets to pay the bills.

That, however, is not the best way to play it!

[scoobysnacks2021]

I would have thought the client would fill this in? They're the ones who know what working practices they expect and what terms they may impose.

In an ideal world it would be collaborative.

yes but they don’t provide their part until I complete the survey first . Such a backwards process. What is the normal route for those questions above as a layman ?

[ladymuck]

I would have thought the client would fill this in? They're the ones who know what working practices they expect and what terms they may impose.

In an ideal world it would be collaborative.

[hobnob]

Take a look at this website:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-em...status-for-tax

You can go through their questions and see the outcome. That will tell you the "right" answers. However, you also need to tell the truth. E.g. if the client won't accept a substitute then you need to say that.

[hobnob]

Deleted duplicate post. (Weird message from website after first attempt.)

[scoobysnacks2021]

Hi Folks can you please help. I'm racking my brain around around the CEST questions I have to fill in order to remain outside IR35 and get the contract generated

The scenario is I have not received the contract yet but the CEST tool needs to be complete first.
Can you please help me with what I should answer?

A Do you complete the work personally ALL of the time?
Yes / No?
B. Do you always perform all of the services?
Yes / No?
C. Is the work also carried out by other individuals employed by you in order for the services to be
fulfilled?
Yes or No?
D. Could you provide other resources/personnel to complete the project/tasks?
Yes or No?
E. Do you provide alternative resources for the work you do?
Yes or No?
F. Is there a substitution clause in the contract, whereby you can send someone else instead? <- this is the most difficult as there is not contract yet
Yes or No?
G. Would the client accept a substitute provided by you?
Yes or No?
H. Would the client put certain requirements in place on the skills the substitute possesses?
Yes or No?

Thankyou!