Client's control if automatically exempt from IR35

[northernladuk]

Ok, thank you.

Fortunately, that list was just a hypothetical example. I do have to request my holiday via their system though. I'll have a chat with the HR.

Did you not get your contract properly reviewed for IR35 before you started as per the old days or did you not understand the situation and just signed and went in? Caveat is it is working practices that determine IR35 not contract but you should have had it checked. Have you got IR35 insurance?

The problem here is the size of the company. Although HMRC have said it's self determination as per the old days small companies are often the ones that will treat their contractors like temporary perms and not contractors. They just aren't big enough to have enough work for 1 person in each role so will often take someone on to do something and that person will invariably be asked to do other things. It's all hands to the pump in small companies which immediately blows your D&C and unlikely RoS will stand up.

People get all excited when it's a small company and they can do their own determination but IMO it's a minefield as it's an area where the determination you want usually isn't there and it sounds like the case for the OP.

[wattaj]

There's nothing wrong with working inside IR35, but dealing with HR is a symptom of a client that thinks you're a bum on seat resource, not a supplier.

T'was ever thus.

[Lance]

^^ This.

Which means that the contractor, not the client, is responsible for the determination of IR35 status. Do not be fooled: YOU ARE ON THE HOOK.

FTFY

[jamesbrown]

Whilst this would be an ideal scenario, it is highly unlikely to be the case for the majority of contractors. That's just the way it is.

There's nothing wrong with working inside IR35, but dealing with HR is a symptom of a client that thinks you're a bum on seat resource, not a supplier.

[wattaj]

...you should be dealing with procurement, not HR...

Whilst this would be an ideal scenario, it is highly unlikely to be the case for the majority of contractors. That's just the way it is.

[jamesbrown]

Oh dear, you should be dealing with procurement, not HR, and asking permission for time off is laughable. You inform them as a matter of courtesy. Your working practices are most likely inside if those terms are representative. Also, you’d better make doubly sure that they are a small company under the Companies Act 2006.

[eek]

Yes. I'd suggest getting the contract and working practices reviewed independently.



That's bonkers! As a third-party supplier there should be no interaction with client's HR systems.

+1 - my current contract is inside IR35 and I don't need to ask for holiday leave - I just announce I'm taking days off and that's it. Equally I give notice if I can because that's just politeness.

[Protagoras]

Hi,

My client is automatically exempt from IR35 because of their company size.

Should I still be cautious about not being controlled by the client in the everyday job or does it not apply anymore?

Yes. I'd suggest getting the contract and working practices reviewed independently.

I do have to request my holiday via their system though.

That's bonkers! As a third-party supplier there should be no interaction with client's HR systems.

[JazzyFry]

Well they aren't exempt from IR35 it's just that the contract falls under the old Chapter 8 rather than Chapter 10 rules. And under the Chapter 8 rules it's the contractor who is responsible for the decision and the tax.

And most of those things scream that the contract is inside IR35..

Ok, thank you.

Fortunately, that list was just a hypothetical example. I do have to request my holiday via their system though. I'll have a chat with the HR.

[wattaj]

Well they aren't exempt from IR35 it's just that the contract falls under the old Chapter 8 rather than Chapter 10 rules. And under the Chapter 8 rules it's the contractor who is responsible for the decision and the tax.

And most of those things scream that the contract is inside IR35..

^^ This.

Which means that the contractor, not the client, is responsible for the determination of IR35 status. Do not be fooled: you're still on the hook.

[eek]

Hi,

My client is automatically exempt from IR35 because of their company size.

Should I still be cautious about not being controlled by the client in the everyday job or does it not apply anymore?

For example:
- having to ask the permission to take time off
- not being able to set my own hours and location
- being named on the client's organisation chart

Thanks

Well they aren't exempt from IR35 it's just that the contract falls under the old Chapter 8 rather than Chapter 10 rules. And under the Chapter 8 rules it's the contractor who is responsible for the decision and the tax.

And most of those things scream that the contract is inside IR35..

[JazzyFry]

Hi,

My client is automatically exempt from IR35 because of their company size.

Should I still be cautious about not being controlled by the client in the everyday job or does it not apply anymore?

For example:
- having to ask the permission to take time off
- not being able to set my own hours and location
- being named on the client's organisation chart

Thanks