Reply to: Getting Paid For Inside Roles

[eek]

I think there's also an issue where the agency doesn't pay the brolly - then the worker cannot recover all losses.

I would expect any umbrella not chasing up payment to not get very far long term.

my issue is more the risk of contagion - where something that has nothing to do with you results in you losing out.

[Protagoras]

A properly audited umbrella shouldn't - the issue is where an umbrella is (quietly) paying people before the agency pays the umbrella and then "something" occurs.

I think there's also an issue where the agency doesn't pay the brolly - then the worker cannot recover all losses.

[eek]

The question is about 'inside' gigs. However non-assessed and outside gigs may also be paid via the models identified.

Brollies increase risk.
- Via the umbrella model, the worker provides the supply chain with personal credit while in the event of non-payment, the brolly's liability is limited to (hours worked * NMW) + holiday pay.

A properly audited umbrella shouldn't - the issue is where an umbrella is (quietly) paying people before the agency pays the umbrella and then "something" occurs.

[eek]

Just to clarify, are you asking:
* Why don't umbrellas pay money to your limited company?
Or:
* Why don't umbrellas let you do salary sacrifice for a car?

1) Because they can't - they would end up being caught by the MSC legislation (I have rather expensive legal advice to that effect)

2) Because no leasing firm wishes to do it (although I should check with the new MD of Amaze as he seemed to be getting close last time I spoke to him).

[fabios]

Just to clarify, are you asking:
* Why don't umbrellas pay money to your limited company?
Or:
* Why don't umbrellas let you do salary sacrifice for a car?

My next post gives a hint.

[hobnob]

If ltd was an option for inside role wouldn't it give us more flexibility, e.g. salary sacrifice for a car? I still don't understand why umbrellas don't offer it.

Just to clarify, are you asking:
* Why don't umbrellas pay money to your limited company?
Or:
* Why don't umbrellas let you do salary sacrifice for a car?

[Protagoras]

The question is about 'inside' gigs. However non-assessed and outside gigs may also be paid via the models identified.

Brollies increase risk.
- Via the umbrella model, the worker provides the supply chain with personal credit while in the event of non-payment, the brolly's liability is limited to (hours worked * NMW) + holiday pay.

[fabios]

I don't think you understand how this works. When you're an employee of an umbrella company, how are they going to pay a limited company your salary?

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Why would I be employee of umbrella if there was an option to pay to my ltd company which would then pay me full salary?

Because umbrellas are trying to do the least work for most money. The more they do the more it will cost you. And also people don't often stay long with a brolly. The next assignment will mandate a different brolly or even outside so they've got then deal with handover of complex tax.

You are expecting too much from your brolly and aren't considering that time costs you money.

I'm not expecting too much, just more tailored service with appropriate pricing. Don't see an issue with providing different options for different prices. Things like 1-month lease shouldn't be an issue if they use a proper software.

[northernladuk]

If ltd was an option for inside role wouldn't it give us more flexibility, e.g. salary sacrifice for a car? I still don't understand why umbrellas don't offer it.
Regarding agency, sounds like the worst option. There are always delays and issues with paperwork so I can imagine they would struggle with things like pension.

Because umbrellas are trying to do the least work for most money. The more they do the more it will cost you. And also people don't often stay long with a brolly. The next assignment will mandate a different brolly or even outside so they've got then deal with handover of complex tax.

You are expecting too much from your brolly and aren't considering that time costs you money.

[Fred Bloggs]

If ltd was an option for inside role wouldn't it give us more flexibility, e.g. salary sacrifice for a car? I still don't understand why umbrellas don't offer it.
Regarding agency, sounds like the worst option. There are always delays and issues with paperwork so I can imagine they would struggle with things like pension.

I don't think you understand how this works. When you're an employee of an umbrella company, how are they going to pay a limited company your salary?

[fabios]

If ltd was an option for inside role wouldn't it give us more flexibility, e.g. salary sacrifice for a car? I still don't understand why umbrellas don't offer it.
Regarding agency, sounds like the worst option. There are always delays and issues with paperwork so I can imagine they would struggle with things like pension.

[northernladuk]

Anyone who thinks deemed payments is a good idea simply doesn't understand how they work - it's literally the worst possible option and a right faff for everyone involved.

Indeed so it's a sorry state that 30% of people have picked it. That said I expected more but maybe Andy only hob nobs with a better class of contractor

[northernladuk]

I know you've done some inside gigs, what would have been your preference?

I voted brolly. Worked fine, pension transfered over after, no holiday pay issus etc. I'd rather not trust an agent to do it and CBA with the LTD doing it. It was only going to be once every so often but I must admit in the new era where it's more likely and for a longer period I'd have to look in to the options again.

[eek]

I know you've done some inside gigs, what would have been your preference?

My viewpoint

A no cost option via Agency payroll (or PEO) should be a legal requirement. Expect it to arrive in 2025/6 because I know Labour will have it as a priority once they get into power.

Umbrellas used to serve a purpose prior to the expenses changes in 2016. Since then their main services are continual employment and an ability to throw what would otherwise be an employer NI payment into your pension pot.

Anyone who thinks deemed payments is a good idea simply doesn't understand how they work - it's literally the worst possible option and a right faff for everyone involved.

[Andy Hallett]

I know you've done some inside gigs, what would have been your preference?