Reply to: question on ltd/employment

[gixxer2021]

Brilliant idea, great, thank you, I am grateful for any suggestions. Now, as you manage your website, which name do you use to provide as reference when you reply back to agencies? (assume it cannot be generic name/your name), I could set a website for my company, set there 8 years experience, add all the roles under this "employment" and solve the issue - like I've been employee of KPMG and be placed at clients sites under different contracts)

I though being a director and paying my salary is enough to cover the employment reference part from agency perspective as it is an administrative issue that needs to be checked (as it makes sense to me - looking for contracts is WORK which is paid with a salary, being a director it's a job itself. Now, I get it's not legally the same thing as having a employment contract is place for you as director but I am not interested in the benefits part or employment on my ltd)

Sorry for the late reply. So for my cv I have all my contracts listed under my consultancy ltd (I think like you’re suggesting above), so for my small projects they’re listed with their website name under my ltd name if that makes sense? So if I decided to do a small website on tuning motorcycle engines I’d register fastertwostrokebikes.com and list that with dates between my clients to avoid gaps. To most agents it just looks like another (small) client. All enquiries for refs go to info@fastertwostrokebikes.com, etc asking to confirm dates for myself/ltd working for the dates, which I confirm. I find this easier than trying to argue with agencies about being a director, even though you’re technically correct. I sometimes use the same project for other gaps, just put on the cv upgrading faster…com to latest react version, etc. Also gives a good talking point with clients, etc. I should also add I don’t try and hide the fact that they’re my sites, my cv will usually say something along the lines that my company owns the site and developed it.

[Slx]

Been contracting for a long time, never been asked about gaps or for any references. Sounds a bit weird. Does the question about gaps, get followed up with 'who was the hiring manager?'.

No, I did that mistake once to provide the hiring manager name (they bring their candidates there in the end)
These annoying questions on gaps are coming at the offer stage after OK from interviews, negociate rates etc
End client doesn't care about gaps as otherwise they won't ask for calls, interviews in the first place etc

[Slx]

The companies or agencies are basically checking that you haven't been in prison during the gap. Tell them you were on maternity leave, renovating your house, looking after a relative, etc.

Prison is covered by DBS, I've been asked on all new roles for DBS, so it's not this.
You can tell them whatever but they require someone to confirm it. This is the annoying part as I have to keep bother again and again same persons which is non-sense.

[Slx]

I can sympathise with this I’ve had some pretty intrusive questions about gaps between contracts as well, as I used to enjoy taking time off between them especially during the summer (not a fashionable thing to do but but I enjoy the work/life balance!). I even had to provide ferry details etc for one agency after time off, and diy receipts etc. Now I just work on small projects between contracts if I’m taking time off and provide them with the website name and say I’ve been working on this for x weeks/months. One agency even emailed the website asking for a reference for me for the dates, which I duly provided ?

Brilliant idea, great, thank you, I am grateful for any suggestions. Now, as you manage your website, which name do you use to provide as reference when you reply back to agencies? (assume it cannot be generic name/your name), I could set a website for my company, set there 8 years experience, add all the roles under this "employment" and solve the issue - like I've been employee of KPMG and be placed at clients sites under different contracts)

I though being a director and paying my salary is enough to cover the employment reference part from agency perspective as it is an administrative issue that needs to be checked (as it makes sense to me - looking for contracts is WORK which is paid with a salary, being a director it's a job itself. Now, I get it's not legally the same thing as having a employment contract is place for you as director but I am not interested in the benefits part or employment on my ltd)

[eek]

I've had third party referencing companies hired by an agency reference me more than once.

The personnel couldn't get their head around the fact I had gaps and asked my referees more intrusive questions. It got to the point my accountant answered something along the lines of "I'm just the accountant", and my other referees wrote sarcastic responses.

Just because it’s a third party doesn’t mean it not cheap and full of incompetent workers doing everything they can to add a few more quid to the bill.

one easy option I would have had is use my accountant - except I don’t have one because they don’t add enough value to me for what they charge.

[SueEllen]

Agencies are asked to provide references going back the last x years and because they are incompetent cheapstakes do it badly rather than offloading it to a third party.

I've had third party referencing companies hired by an agency reference me more than once.

The personnel couldn't get their head around the fact I had gaps and asked my referees more intrusive questions. It got to the point my accountant answered something along the lines of "I'm just the accountant", and my other referees wrote sarcastic responses.

[eek]

I once had that question, why wasn't I working? My reply was "because I have hundreds of thousands in the bank and I don't need to."

A lot of the wage slaves simply cannot comprehend how someone could go months or years and not work, and they think you were desperately looking for work while living on benefits or something.

Yep - I recently started a contract after 3 years of not really working in a conventional sense and trying to fit into their reference criteria was entertaining.

[escapeUK]

I once had that question, why wasn't I working? My reply was "because I have hundreds of thousands in the bank and I don't need to."

A lot of the wage slaves simply cannot comprehend how someone could go months or years and not work, and they think you were desperately looking for work while living on benefits or something.

[eek]

Been contracting for a long time, never been asked about gaps or for any references. Sounds a bit weird. Does the question about gaps, get followed up with 'who was the hiring manager?'.

Agencies are asked to provide references going back the last x years and because they are incompetent cheapstakes do it badly rather than offloading it to a third party.

[krytonsheep]

I am getting contracts around 8-9 months per year. Each time I get a new contract I am being asked by agencies to justify the 'gap in employment' as it is not covered by start/end of the assignments.

Been contracting for a long time, never been asked about gaps or for any references. Sounds a bit weird. Does the question about gaps, get followed up with 'who was the hiring manager?'.

[gixxer2021]

I can sympathise with this I’ve had some pretty intrusive questions about gaps between contracts as well, as I used to enjoy taking time off between them especially during the summer (not a fashionable thing to do but but I enjoy the work/life balance!). I even had to provide ferry details etc for one agency after time off, and diy receipts etc. Now I just work on small projects between contracts if I’m taking time off and provide them with the website name and say I’ve been working on this for x weeks/months. One agency even emailed the website asking for a reference for me for the dates, which I duly provided ?

[northernladuk]

Where I can get details on this "That requires an employment contract and the way a company treats employees is different to that of office holders/directors". My salary has been 15k/annual on a bad year, on good years I pay myself little bit more in salary. Covering NMW was never an issue. I don't see how having an employment contract makes any difference at all, I get P60 from ltd anyway.

You do some basic googling. You should know this being a director and being responsible for your company.

https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/director

Having an emplyment contract makes all the difference. It makes you officially an employee and not an office holder and therefore your legal rights change. One is you must be paid NMW. As a director you don't need to and many contractors use this to pay themselves the most efficient amount. You've also got a ton of other rights.

Paying yourself more in good years isn't tax efficient. It is your right to be able to avoid tax where it is legal so no idea why you change your salary levels but that's your issue.

[malvolio]

Thank you, not sure it was clear, I choose to work 7-8 months per year, personal reasons. Clients don't care about breaks they just want to see experience, knowledge, the ones that care about this, don't ask for meetings/interviews etc

I get the offer then agency seems to be bother by gaps in month, what did you do between contracts, long break/vacation, too many etc (not all agencies cares but some asks details) In my view I argue there is no gap as I pay my salary continously every month as director of the ltd, searching for contracts is work/job and it is paid. Which is not actually 'the same' as being employee, it is annoying and trying to find ways to move around this.

Where I can get details on this "That requires an employment contract and the way a company treats employees is different to that of office holders/directors". My salary has been 15k/annual on a bad year, on good years I pay myself little bit more in salary. Covering NMW was never an issue. I don't see how having an employment contract makes any difference at all, I get P60 from ltd anyway.

It makes a difference because an employee has a different legal framework to an officer of the company.

Also helps to understand redundancy. For a director that's a real Catch 22, since to make yourself redundant you have to be in post as an officer of the company or if you close the company there's nobody in post to make you redundant.

HTH...

[velcro]

I've been asked to justify gaps a few times, usually because it's a requirement for security clearance, and they'll ask for a reference from the accountant to cover the period.
The companies or agencies are basically checking that you haven't been in prison during the gap. Tell them you were on maternity leave, renovating your house, looking after a relative, etc.

[Slx]

Still not an employee. That requires an employment contract and the way a company treats employees is different to that of office holders/directors. For example. A company has to legally pay an employee National Minium Wage. This does not apply to a director so can pay as little as they want which is why the low salary/high divs works so well for us. Don't quote me but also affects rights, redundancy etc to some extent.

But bottom line is, until you have an employment contract you an office holder/director, not an employee.

Thank you, not sure it was clear, I choose to work 7-8 months per year, personal reasons. Clients don't care about breaks they just want to see experience, knowledge, the ones that care about this, don't ask for meetings/interviews etc

I get the offer then agency seems to be bother by gaps in month, what did you do between contracts, long break/vacation, too many etc (not all agencies cares but some asks details) In my view I argue there is no gap as I pay my salary continously every month as director of the ltd, searching for contracts is work/job and it is paid. Which is not actually 'the same' as being employee, it is annoying and trying to find ways to move around this.

Where I can get details on this "That requires an employment contract and the way a company treats employees is different to that of office holders/directors". My salary has been 15k/annual on a bad year, on good years I pay myself little bit more in salary. Covering NMW was never an issue. I don't see how having an employment contract makes any difference at all, I get P60 from ltd anyway.