Reply to: Snacks, fruit and free lunches... Pt2

[northernladuk]

This benefit applies to both employees and directors. It's only possible here because the OP has premises.

https://www.gov.uk/expenses-benefits...s/whats-exempt

But linked under that is EIM21670 - Particular benefits: subsidised meals including canteen meals and working lunches

If an employer provides free or subsidised meals to its employees or directors there may be relief from tax by exemption or deduction:

• under the exemption in Section 317 ITEPA 2003 (see EIM21671), or
• where the meal is part and parcel of the employee or director travelling on qualifying business travel, or
• where the employee’s or director’s meal is part of business entertaining for which there is a matching deduction under Section 336 ITEPA 2003.

If none of these apply then, for employees and directors (except for 2015/16 and earlier those in an excluded employment (see EIM20007)), a benefits charge will arise

He's not travelling for qualifying business and doesn't meet the other criteria so it's not allowed surely? His premises is his place of work, not clients site. It would be classed as a commute so no expenses?

[northernladuk]

To come to think of it, it's probably wiser to err on the side of caution. My registered company address is my home address and it's in the same town as the office which I'm leasing to work from. I mean, I probably could scrape through if I was audited but it hardly seems worth the risk. Audit's do NOT sound fun.

Whereas, when I've had to work away I've taken some comfort in known on the receipt it will typically give a rough location. Like Jasper's Kebabs, Blackburn, Liverpool, Oldbury whatever etc. That's the logic at least. But still worth querying as with a lot of this stuff there's multiple shades of grey it seems.

There is no shades of grey eating while you are at home. You have to do it to live, not for business. The fact you are doing business there is just muddying a pretty clear rule with inconsequential issues the system was never designed to meet. Just because there is a loophole in a legislation to cover a situation that shouldn't have occured doesn't mean you should do it.

Probably scrape through? A 3 quid meal that you'd eat at home anyway.. Ok then.

We've looked at the tax situation but the problems start in the first thread. There is a big difference between a perm person having perks and a one man LTD claiming on tax. Completely different things. Another example is training. We cannot expense new skills, so how do big companies cover re-training. They either don't claim the tax on it or they have different expemptions because of their size. You cannot compare what we do to what they do. You can buy all the sandwhiches you want, but can you claim the tax on them? That's a different question.

On a slightly side note if you are leasing an office then isn't that your main place of work now so can't claim expenses around it at all. Mileage, food nothing?

[ApeShape]

This benefit applies to both employees and directors. It's only possible here because the OP has premises.

https://www.gov.uk/expenses-benefits...s/whats-exempt

To come to think of it, it's probably wiser to err on the side of caution. My registered company address is my home address and it's in the same town as the office which I'm leasing to work from. I mean, I probably could scrape through if I was audited but it hardly seems worth the risk. Audit's do NOT sound fun.

Whereas, when I've had to work away I've taken some comfort in known on the receipt it will typically give a rough location. Like Jasper's Kebabs, Blackburn, Liverpool, Oldbury whatever etc. That's the logic at least. But still worth querying as with a lot of this stuff there's multiple shades of grey it seems.

Cool. Troll on dude.

Ditto.

[northernladuk]

This benefit applies to both employees and directors. It's only possible here because the OP has premises.

https://www.gov.uk/expenses-benefits...s/whats-exempt

If he's LTD is registered at his accountants he won't have premises will he? If he's WFH then the key bit is home in that?

[BlasterBates]

I get the point but that strays into trivial benefits territory, and as a director of a close company and not an employee of one, those are specifically excluded.

This benefit applies to both employees and directors. It's only possible here because the OP has premises.

https://www.gov.uk/expenses-benefits...s/whats-exempt

[northernladuk]

Honestly, it's the tastiest sandwich known to man! I used to have it with some grated cheese but like you say I'm trying to be a bit healthier and I've done away with that and the pork scratchings / mars bar option.

Cool. Troll on dude.

[ApeShape]

Which he could save (and be healthier) by buying ingredients and make his own sandwiches rather than buying it. Bit of a silly question all round really.

Honestly, it's the tastiest sandwich known to man! I used to have it with some grated cheese but like you say I'm trying to be a bit healthier and I've done away with that and the pork scratchings / mars bar option.

[northernladuk]

But my main point stands - why is £1 or less a day worth all this anguish? What does engineering taxation rules to get it say about our claims to be operating as businesses?

Which he could save (and be healthier) by buying ingredients and make his own sandwiches rather than buying it. Bit of a silly question all round really.

[malvolio]

The fact that the OP has premises means that theoretically he does get the tax break.

https://www.mytipsandadvice.co.uk/20...DAR_EU15100501

If he provides refreshments in the leased office space this should actually qualify.

It wouldn't apply if you work at home or at the client's office.

I get the point but that strays into trivial benefits territory, and as a director of a close company and not an employee of one, those are specifically excluded.

But my main point stands - why is £1 or less a day worth all this anguish? What does engineering taxation rules to get it say about our claims to be operating as businesses?

[BlasterBates]

The fact that the OP has premises means that theoretically he does get the tax break.

https://www.mytipsandadvice.co.uk/20...DAR_EU15100501

If he provides refreshments in the leased office space this should actually qualify.

It wouldn't apply if you work at home or at the client's office.

[Lance]

Driving to see the accountant, to ask the question, and having a sandwich en-route would be claimable though as it's a business trip.

HTH

[northernladuk]

An for that other guy, no, eating in the office not the kitchen does not make it a business expense

[northernladuk]

OP might have actually tried asking his accountant first or doing a bit of interwebbing as well.

https://www.contractoruk.com/expense...d_company.html

If, however, by refreshments you mean general day-to-day subsistence (food and drink when working at a client’s site) costs, then this would not be a legitimate business cost while working from home.

You have to eat to live, not for business so eating at home is not a legitimate cost that is wholly and exclusively for the purpose of business.

OP. You need to start understanding what you do better.

[northernladuk]

Big companys also pay for things to incentivise their staff that may not also be claimed against tax. OP's company can buy him all the snacks, lunches and whatever but it doesn't mean he can claim the tax back on it.

You just can't compare a large corp with a one man band. You need to apply a bit of common sense. Paying for stuff to incentivise staff and run a good company is a world away from a one man band looking at his tax bill.

I just want to be able to get a lunch time mayo-egg bacon sarnie, coke and crisps off my company as an expense

I mean, honestly. You got nothing better to to do than try save 60p and your time? You are in the top 0.1% of earners and are a director of your own company. Why are you dicking about expensing mayo-egg bacon sarnie and some fruit? That's just stupid.

If you are that tight for money they buy the stuff and make yourself the damn food. You'll save much more than 60p.... and no, buying the stuff to make a sandwich is not deductable.

[malvolio]

Where does it say that in the information on the HMRC site, definitely not in the link I shared.

And AS said he's working from a co-working space not home.

Subsistence is not classified as a trivial benefit; that is for one-off or occasional payments to an employee for things like Christmas parties and so on, to a limit of £300 a year. Or none at all if you are the director of a close company...

The £5 a day expenses allowance (£10 if overseas) is for subsistence and related small expenditures, if you are working way from home for a time longer than the standard work day (wonderfully imprecise but the cut off is generally taken to be working away for more than 8 hours plus your usual commute time) Since the OP is not at home but in a shared workspace in someone else's building then strictly speaking he can claim his lunch up to that limit if he's away from home long enough to qualify.

That would result in a net gain of £1 a day (or less if he doesn't spend the whole £5). or £260 a year if he works every day possible. So fill your boots. Personally I have never thought it worth the bother or the fairly minor risk of an expenses investigation by HMRC.