Reply to: Changing an agent when there is no contract in place

[LondonManc]

Back to the core of the problem.

You want more money and the agent does want to surrender any margin, yes?

[lecyclist]

Maybe this is your first contract. What other posters are suggesting is that contracting is a lucrative lifestyle, but the financial management/ know-how is equally (if not more) important than the tech skills. It sounds like your naivety has led to you being exploited on this gig, and you just need to think about the best way to untangle yourself.

- It sounds like you are happy staying with the client. Are you aware of the financial downside of moving from outside to inside IR35?
- Do you know the market value for your skills?
- What is so good about this client that you don't look for another contract elsewhere?

You need to think about your exit plan. Changing agents is a non-starter.

[northernladuk]

Why on earth are you staying with a client going outside to inside when you've absolutely no defence you were ever outside at all. That's just utter madness.

No wonder HMRC thought they had a case to bring the rules in. What an absolute cluster **** this is. tulip way to act as a contractor. Dumbest thing I've read in ages.

[SimonMac]

Its possible that you haven't signed a contact, however if you have been doing the work, submitting invoices and being paid there is an implied contact in place and if you've not seen it there is no guarantee you can walk away clean and simple.

There is also the relationship between the client and the agent, ninety nine times out of a hundred the client will use an agent to save them hassle, if you bring them the hassle of wanting to change agent (which affects them as thats where their contract lies) you will again more likely than not find the offer revoked. It easier to find one contractor than a new agent to handle the dozens of contractors a client may have

[velcro]

If there's no contract and you walk, what expectation do you have that you'll be paid for any outstanding invoices?

[Lance]

How on earth the old agent would get paid? The invoices wouldn't;t go through him and there is no contract. Probably a lot smarter...lol

my question was how DOES the agent get paid. Not how will the agent get paid.
So how does he? By whom? And under what contract?
And if you use another agency does it make that contractual chain void? And if so how?

Or is this just hope and aspiration, based on assumption and guess work?

[hobnob]

There would normally be 2 contracts: one between your limited company (or umbrella) and the agency, and one between the agency and the client.

In this case, the first contract might not exist. However, you don't know the status of the second contract.

[Joes]

so if you use another agent, and current agent still gets paid (why wouldn't he?), who's paying the new agent?
You really need to understand the commercial relationships before you try and get smart. They're probably quite a lot smarter,

How on earth the old agent would get paid? The invoices wouldn't;t go through him and there is no contract. Probably a lot smarter...lol

[Lance]

I know that it sounds weird but I've never signed a contract with him or the company. No paperwork. I believe he must have one with the company but I am not tight with anyone by a contract.

so if you use another agent, and current agent still gets paid (why wouldn't he?), who's paying the new agent?
You really need to understand the commercial relationships before you try and get smart. They're probably quite a lot smarter,

[Joes]

Leaving aside your main question, "moving inside" is dangerous: the implication is that your role was actually inside IR35 all along, and therefore that you miscategorised it (when you were responsible for the determination), so you might find HMRC coming after you for back taxes.

Given your other concerns about the agent, this seems like a good time to jump ship. Find a new contract (different client), either inside or outside IR35, and you don't have to worry about getting into trouble.

Thanks, for your reply.

The point is I don't want to change the job and I don't need to. I can work with a new agent whom I know but the question is if my current agent would have grounds to challenge that. Despite not having any binding contract with me.

[Joes]

What do you mean you've never had a contract with him?
Who do you have a contract with? A different agency, or direct?

And how does he get 40%? If it's from the client then it's none of your business anyway.

I know that it sounds weird but I've never signed a contract with him or the company. No paperwork. I believe he must have one with the company but I am not tight with anyone by a contract.

[hobnob]

I have been working for a little over a year for a company through my agent. I am now in the process of negotiating my new day rate while being moved inside IR35.

Leaving aside your main question, "moving inside" is dangerous: the implication is that your role was actually inside IR35 all along, and therefore that you miscategorised it (when you were responsible for the determination), so you might find HMRC coming after you for back taxes.

Given your other concerns about the agent, this seems like a good time to jump ship. Find a new contract (different client), either inside or outside IR35, and you don't have to worry about getting into trouble.

[Lance]

I have been working for a little over a year for a company through my agent. I am now in the process of negotiating my new day rate while being moved inside IR35. The problem is that my agent is a pain and wants me to accept the same day ray while I know his commission is 40%. The thing is I've never had a contract with him, it was all a bit rushed so there is no signature on any agreement.

The question is can I change my agent without the company or me being sued or getting into troubles?

Thanks for your help
Joes

What do you mean you've never had a contract with him?
Who do you have a contract with? A different agency, or direct?

And how does he get 40%? If it's from the client then it's none of your business anyway.

[Joes]

Well... I want to walk away. It's no longer about the day rate, I genuinely want to go via another agent and I have a guaranteed job in the same position. So I thought since I don't have a contract I can leave him.

cheers

[NotAllThere]

Tell him (and mean it)m that you'll walk if he doesn't give you what you want. If he fails, find another job. That's your only viable route.