Reply to: Too late to walk out ?

[Lance]

That's not true though. HMRC investigations are usually sparked by something. That millions is everyone doing it properly. Narrow it down to the number of people with fudged SDS's or on shakey ground and that becomes much lower odds.

So what you should be saying is how many with tweaked, fudged or just downright incorrect SDS's and its 1 in that number no?

How HMRC will kick of investigations is yet to be determined though to be fair.

more importantly there's a huge difference between being penalised for non-compliance, and a spell at her majesty's pleasure/criminal record.

[northernladuk]

Don't worry. millions are in the same situation.
the possibility of invesitigation is 1 in million or something!

That's not true though. HMRC investigations are usually sparked by something. That millions is everyone doing it properly. Narrow it down to the number of people with fudged SDS's or on shakey ground and that becomes much lower odds.

So what you should be saying is how many with tweaked, fudged or just downright incorrect SDS's and its 1 in that number no?

How HMRC will kick of investigations is yet to be determined though to be fair.

[RobScott]

Don't worry. millions are in the same situation.
the possibility of invesitigation is 1 in million or something!

[Lance]

Whats that got to do with it !!

if you falsely change or create a document, where that falsehood gains you an advantage, at the expense of another party, you have defrauded that other party. That is a criminal offense.
When the fraud is done to avoid paying tax, it becomes tax evasion. That is also a criminal offense.

This isn't that hard. Section 2 (Fraud by false representation) and section 7 (Making or supplying articles for use in frauds) of that link are the pertinent parts.
IANAL

[luxCon]

here Fraud Act 2006, The | The Crown Prosecution Service (cps.gov.uk)

HTH

Whats that got to do with it !!

[Lance]

Show us where it says its a 'criminal' offense, Until such time I'd say your imagination has run away with it

here Fraud Act 2006, The | The Crown Prosecution Service (cps.gov.uk)

HTH

[luxCon]

If they 'tweak' the questionnaire to reflect an untruth that is a criminal offense of fraud.

Show us where it says its a 'criminal' offense, Until such time I'd say your imagination has run away with it

[gayab]

I am walking out, I told them. I wont be billing past 31st March.

thank you all for your support.

[northernladuk]

Hi , I think I misused the word tweak. Let me give you an example. One of the question is if there is a mistake and then there are few options fo what happens. The client replied that they would expect me to fix it during normal time and charge it. So I spoke to them this afternoon, told them that its generous they put it that way, but from my past examples shown them that if there was ever a mistake I fix them in my own time and do not charge for it. I also showed them example of work carried out to fix something I did and did not charge for a weekend. so then the answer to the question changes.

So I would say I discussed the working practices to understand their perception and what do I do. I also explained them that I work in my own time,they do not set my working hours and he agreed in sense that I log off early and then work in evenings and I have never sought permission to do this.

Regards

That won't fly. 99.99% of contractors have to fix it in their own time. A court will know this and if they uncover lies they'll be at it like a bull in a china shop. If the client expects you to fix it in work time you fix it in work time. Working in your time isn't enough of a pointer. Many permies do this now with the new world of flexible working. All you are doing here is digging a bigger hole for yourself.

Nothing changes, you are caught. The only options have been explained to you already.

[northernladuk]

If hypothetically I was to have a conversation with the client to discuss my working practices and they tweak the questionnaire to bring it "Off-payroll working rules (IR35) do not apply", will that work ?

There is no getting away from this. You are inside. You're fault and you've got to swallow it. Don't look for fudges or get arounds. You are inside. If you stay all your past history at the client should be inside and the risk of getting caught increases over time. If you leave ASAP you reduce your chances of getting caught.

Don't forget also anything you earn going forward now is 30-35% less than it was before. Claiming otherwise is evasion and/or fraud.

That's it. No amount of glitter helps this steaming pile of tulip I am afraid.

[gayab]

If they 'tweak' the questionnaire to reflect an untruth that is a criminal offense of fraud. You would be entering a conspiracy to evade tax by fraud.

Hi , I think I misused the word tweak. Let me give you an example. One of the question is if there is a mistake and then there are few options fo what happens. The client replied that they would expect me to fix it during normal time and charge it. So I spoke to them this afternoon, told them that its generous they put it that way, but from my past examples shown them that if there was ever a mistake I fix them in my own time and do not charge for it. I also showed them example of work carried out to fix something I did and did not charge for a weekend. so then the answer to the question changes.

So I would say I discussed the working practices to understand their perception and what do I do. I also explained them that I work in my own time,they do not set my working hours and he agreed in sense that I log off early and then work in evenings and I have never sought permission to do this.

Regards

[Lance]

If hypothetically I was to have a conversation with the client to discuss my working practices and they tweak the questionnaire to bring it "Off-payroll working rules (IR35) do not apply", will that work ?

If they 'tweak' the questionnaire to reflect an untruth that is a criminal offense of fraud. You would be entering a conspiracy to evade tax by fraud.

[gayab]

If hypothetically I was to have a conversation with the client to discuss my working practices and they tweak the questionnaire to bring it "Off-payroll working rules (IR35) do not apply", will that work ?

[eek]

Surely “outcome not determined” still results in being treated as inside as the agency and end client still carry the risk.

I don’t see how it changes anything

Also switching to an umbrella while great (that’s perfect going forward) doesn’t solve anything here

[gayab]

Thank you all for your replies. I messed up by letting this go past 05th April, the client did the assessment late and I did not even know that they are planning to do it. But I am where I am and I have to look to get out of this in "safest" way possible.

Options are
1. Walk out, dont bill past 31st March. ( that is when my Ltd Co year ends )

2. Agency is sure they can move me on "new" contract with same client from March 21 ( retrospective ) and that can be carried out under Umbrella or PAYE. My concern with this is the "Master" contract still stays same so whats the point ?

3. Get client to tweak couple of answers in the Assessment and get it to the "Outcome not determined" state and carry on .

4. Get client to tweak couple of answers in the Assessment and get it to the "Outcome not determined" state and leave.