Things to take in to account if you are considering to go permie.....

[Old Greg]

We are businesses that don't play well with others

I like that. Not good corporate citizens.

[elsergiovolador]

I find it amusing that a forum where people shout "we're not employees, we're businesses" seem to be agreeing that they don't want the hassle of having staff to manage

Business main goal is to make profit. Staff management is boring and best is to have people doing it for you or ideally outsource everything and just count cash.

[vwdan]

I find it amusing that a forum where people shout "we're not employees, we're businesses" seem to be agreeing that they don't want the hassle of having staff to manage

Not sure why the two can't be mutually exclusive. I'm pretty certain I didn't accidentally employ my plumber, but he doesn't have or want any staff either.

Incidentally, my best mate loved running his own business - he had an office, loads of clients, occasional contractors, the lot. Then he expanded by hiring permanent staff, found himself spending all his time dealing with HR crap and binned the whole thing and went permie. You can enjoy being in business without enjoying managing staff.

[GhostofTarbera]

You need a complete change of mindset to

Take credit for your teams work, don’t even mention your team to sen management, any contractors in your team delivers something - that then becomes your delivery

And anything that screws up is never your fault, you blame contractors 1st, then your permie team


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[ladymuck]

I find it amusing that a forum where people shout "we're not employees, we're businesses" seem to be agreeing that they don't want the hassle of having staff to manage

We are businesses that don't play well with others

[Paralytic]

I find it amusing that a forum where people shout "we're not employees, we're businesses" seem to be agreeing that they don't want the hassle of having staff to manage

[Old Greg]

As soon as you move into a management role, management becomes the biggest part of your job. Unless that's what you want avoid it. It will inevitably mean an increase in hours as well, as you will be expected to deliver on the management portion of the job as well as any technical stuff in the same time amount of time.

I've spent most of the last 30 years making sure I never had the word manager in my job title. So far I haven't regretted it.

Like most of us who have been at it for a while, at this point the day job is money for old rope. I can do it with my eyes closed and everything that clients think is unique and special to them is just a variation on a theme. But, it pays very well, I get lots of flexibility and have no real responsibilities which means a lot less stress.

I don't mind project or programme management, but I've never line managed anyone or managed an operational service.

[ladymuck]

I've spent most of the last 30 years making sure I never had the word manager in my job title. So far I haven't regretted it.

^^ this

I once had 'manager' in a title (my last permie role that lasted 4 months in 2004) and have successfully avoided it ever since. I am not management material and have no desire to manage other people. It's also much harder work than I'm prepared to put in.

Some people are great managers, others get promoted out of a job they're good at and into management because "that's the career path" without any thought for how you turn a doer into a manager.

If you feel ready for management/leadership and that's what you want to do then go for it. Give it a go and see how it works out - that's the only way you'll find out.

[DaveB]

As soon as you move into a management role, management becomes the biggest part of your job. Unless that's what you want avoid it. It will inevitably mean an increase in hours as well, as you will be expected to deliver on the management portion of the job as well as any technical stuff in the same time amount of time.

I've spent most of the last 30 years making sure I never had the word manager in my job title. So far I haven't regretted it.

Like most of us who have been at it for a while, at this point the day job is money for old rope. I can do it with my eyes closed and everything that clients think is unique and special to them is just a variation on a theme. But, it pays very well, I get lots of flexibility and have no real responsibilities which means a lot less stress.

[TheDogsNads]

The two stress elements of a senior roles:

Firstly it's not the HR nonsenses you will have to endure in your own role but applying them to your subordinates. Having the responsibility to blight someone's income or even career or having to resolve issues that are brought to you create far more headaches than many contractors realise.

Secondly we are rather used to standing up for our work and accepting mistakes we have made, but when it's someone working under you that's cocked things up - an there are many ways of that happening - it is suddenly a lot harder.

Also you have to think in terms of years rather than months. I've worked with various public sector teams, they were perfectly relaxed about waiting two or three 3-year postings to get to the next grade up the ladder.

And your net take-home rapidly becomes a secondary consideration

But you won't know unless you try.

First, the second point! Yes, the good old permie days. I remember being promoted and a new team being created for me. A couple of the other managers saw it as a golden opportunity to get rid of their tulip staff and their work by 'seconding' them to 'my' team. Some of this 'work' was an absolute pile of do-do. No wonder the other managers wanted rid.

In the first management meeting less than a week later, I was taken to task by the senior manager during a manager's meeting as to why the work was so (expletive deleted) crap?! You have to carry the can, unfortunately and clear up other people's tulip for no thanks.

Lots of places indulge in nepotism or is it cronyism and advancement can be slow as a result. A good starting wedge may well be that but future increases small or even not at all so after a few years, that good wedge isnt looking so good now!

Then there's the telling people what they want to hear, especially senior managers. True, you have that to a degree in the contact world but I think it is essential in permiedom if you have any desire to advance up the greased pole.

[malvolio]

The two stress elements of a senior roles:

Firstly it's not the HR nonsenses you will have to endure in your own role but applying them to your subordinates. Having the responsibility to blight someone's income or even career or having to resolve issues that are brought to you create far more headaches than many contractors realise.

Secondly we are rather used to standing up for our work and accepting mistakes we have made, but when it's someone working under you that's cocked things up - an there are many ways of that happening - it is suddenly a lot harder.

Also you have to think in terms of years rather than months. I've worked with various public sector teams, they were perfectly relaxed about waiting two or three 3-year postings to get to the next grade up the ladder.

And your net take-home rapidly becomes a secondary consideration

But you won't know unless you try.

[SimonMac]

I'll put my hands up, although I am finding new contracts (before COVID19) easy enough, I am feeling a bit stagnent and generally unfulfilled as they are all very samey, identify problem, fix problem, move on. I've had an ambition to move into STL roles and have come to the conclusion that this won't happen as a contractor, so the options is plod on doing the work I am and getting paid well for it.

An opportunity has come up at an ex-client i enjoyed working with and toying with the idea of going for it and using it as a basis for moving into the leadership roles, the pay is "OK" for the North of England, if they start me at the bottom of the pay band it's a non starter but if I can get in towards the top things would be doable with the benefits of holiday & pension etc.

So as well as the things like PDR's, team aways days and office politics, what other practicalities do I need to consider? From an SA point of view moving from a low salary/dividend model to a high salary mid way through a tax year, how bad can it get? The Ltd co will have a good whack of cash in it, but if there is no easy way of taking the money out because my PAYE salary I can't really use it as a method to pay any unexpected tax bill etc.

I'd be keeping MyCo, as I have a few plan B clients which will mean <£1000 a year will still go into the books which will pay to keep things ticking over