Reply to: Advice - Rights after 4+ years

[smalldog]

Nothing specific, perhaps smaller clients than some (some startups, some in the 50-100 employee range) but I’ve worked for some larger clients too.

I generally only need internet access and it’s not hard to set up a separate WiFi network that is isolated from the corporate network which is what I imagine some do.

fair enough. most clients I work with provide me with a laptop as I am not allowed onto their corp Lan with my own kit for security reasons.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

interesting how Ive never experienced that personally. if you dont mind me asking do you work in a specific industry?

Nothing specific, perhaps smaller clients than some (some startups, some in the 50-100 employee range) but I’ve worked for some larger clients too.

I generally only need internet access and it’s not hard to set up a separate WiFi network that is isolated from the corporate network which is what I imagine some do.

[smalldog]

Of my last 5 contracts, only one has not allowed me to use my own laptop.

Just proves my point, using your own equipment cant be used as a test. Or you would have failed on at least one engagement....anyway.

[mudskipper]

interesting how Ive never experienced that personally. if you dont mind me asking do you work in a specific industry?

Of my last 5 contracts, only one has not allowed me to use my own laptop.

[smalldog]

I’ve never had a client that’s NOT let me use my own laptop.

interesting how Ive never experienced that personally. if you dont mind me asking do you work in a specific industry?

[smalldog]

"Dont think I have ever worked in an org that allows you to plug in your own laptop to their network."

Clearly they didn't have a VPN then. My current client allows access to their Intranet using VPN through the Internet.

From Home Ive managed to use Citrix in the past, but not allowed to use own kit in the office.

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

I think one of their "tests" is folly. Its in relation to providing your own equipment. Dont think I have ever worked in an org that allows you to plug in your own laptop to their network. It just doesnt happen and shows a lack of understanding how IT works and Ive worked in Public S. Be interesting to know if HMRC would allow a random to plug their laptop into their network, I doubt it very much! To me its not a valid test.

I’ve never had a client that’s NOT let me use my own laptop.

[JohntheBike]

I think one of their "tests" is folly. Its in relation to providing your own equipment. Dont think I have ever worked in an org that allows you to plug in your own laptop to their network. It just doesnt happen and shows a lack of understanding how IT works and Ive worked in Public S. Be interesting to know if HMRC would allow a random to plug their laptop into their network, I doubt it very much! To me its not a valid test.

"Dont think I have ever worked in an org that allows you to plug in your own laptop to their network."

Clearly they didn't have a VPN then. My current client allows access to their Intranet using VPN through the Internet.

[mudskipper]

I think one of their "tests" is folly. Its in relation to providing your own equipment. Dont think I have ever worked in an org that allows you to plug in your own laptop to their network. It just doesnt happen and shows a lack of understanding how IT works and Ive worked in Public S. Be interesting to know if HMRC would allow a random to plug their laptop into their network, I doubt it very much! To me its not a valid test.

And laptops are specifically excluded from the 'test' in the CEST tool in any case (I use my own all the time).

[simes]

Agreed.

[smalldog]

Absolutely. Anything that distinguishes you from permies should go into your IR35 file.

I think one of their "tests" is folly. Its in relation to providing your own equipment. Dont think I have ever worked in an org that allows you to plug in your own laptop to their network. It just doesnt happen and shows a lack of understanding how IT works and Ive worked in Public S. Be interesting to know if HMRC would allow a random to plug their laptop into their network, I doubt it very much! To me its not a valid test.

[WordIsBond]

Few things I keep in my "Im not an employee" listare:
- I am not allowed on the corporate intranet
- Im not invited to any of the "work" events
- Im excluded from all employee comms newsletters and emails
- my user name actually has the abbreviation External consultant pre-fix

I know some of the above doesnt count in the official list of things but its all valid and I would be using them in any argument.

Absolutely. Anything that distinguishes you from permies should go into your IR35 file.

[northernladuk]

Few things I keep in my "Im not an employee" listare:
- I am not allowed on the corporate intranet
- Im not invited to any of the "work" events
- Im excluded from all employee comms newsletters and emails
- my user name actually has the abbreviation External consultant pre-fix

I know some of the above doesnt count in the official list of things but its all valid and I would be using them in any argument.

Always a good idea to keep your focus on these points throughout a gig. They are all fairly minor points but would most certainly be useful as evidence if you need to tip the balance in a close run case. Better to have the main pillars covered which includes a valid and checked contract and try avoid an investigation though.

[smalldog]

additional softer points

Few things I keep in my "Im not an employee" listare:
- I am not allowed on the corporate intranet
- Im not invited to any of the "work" events
- Im excluded from all employee comms newsletters and emails
- my user name actually has the abbreviation External consultant pre-fix

I know some of the above doesnt count in the official list of things but its all valid and I would be using them in any argument.

[JohntheBike]

Thanks for all of that .. I didn't appreciate it was such a minefield!! To respond to a few of your points


* I get zero direction. Initially I worked on a few projects but for the last 2/3 years I have had a stand alone role and no direction whatsoever ... in fact I am about the only person in the business that understands what I do!

* I use the term 'boss' lightly ... only time I saw him in 2018 was for a pre Xmas drink

* They do regard me as a contractor, most definitely

* All 3 contracts I had included a right of substitution

I think the IR35 issue (of which I clearly don't have a good knowledge of) is the key issue here. My initial question was designed to seek advice as to how I might go back in the event they tell me 'time's up'. It's clear I have no basis to argue the matter and so I just hope they honour the last contract and give me the 4 weeks.

As for HMRC, maybe I just hope that by closing down my Ltd Co before the end of my Fin Yr (August) will mean I keep off their radar too (if indeed there is anything to worry about)

Thanks again

"I think the IR35 issue (of which I clearly don't have a good knowledge of) is the key issue here."

I'm honestly amazed that after all the years that IR35 has been in existence, debated and challenged, that there are still some like yourself who are not IR35 savvy. I wish you well, but you really need to catch up quickly on the implications of IR35 and try to absorb the very good advice on these fora.