Reply to: Newbie - Inside/Outside IR35 - Help!

[northernladuk]

Pensions are more efficient via the brolly and don't you have to have one by law? Why would you have a personal one?
pensions_contractors_umbrella_company.aspx

You can combine all the closed ones in to wherever you want.

[LondonRealist]

Deffo stay umbrella. If you went LTD you'd be on your own so put a good amount of effort in to researching and learning stuff for yourself.

If you do think you are up for it. Read all the links to the right hand side, starting with the first timers guide and then come back with some specific questions we can actually answer.

Thanks - I've nearly completed the on-boarding online process for the agent and finally signed up to Liquid Friday umbrella (swayed by their website content, small team, growing business) and the way staff were overly chatty every time I called them today to check their fees / info. I nearly went with SmartWork as they're also small yet seemed decent on phone and are open 7 days.

So fingers crossed. My biggest fear is not getting paid thru timesheet / Giant payroll cock ups onto y umbrella. But I'll just have to be like a hawk on those timesheets and keep my own records of it too

Are their any personal pension plans that contractors use and pay into instead of having pension pots in perm and umbrella pensions. I guess I need to think about that as well.

thanks for the links on right and steer guys.

[jmo21]

you think that a client will hand over a decision, that potentially impacts the client legally and financially, if done wrong, to an agency?

wooosh!

[Lance]

What's people's view on this?

The MoD are incapable of allowing any sort of worker to not be under S, D & C. It's called the chain of command. So I'm not surprised it's inside. Probably always should have been.

[Vincenth1]

IR35

I'm thinking about accepting a contract with the MOD/army. The role was advertised as a day rate inside IR35, Umbrella, Company or PAYE. I don't think I've seen any MOD role outside since the new legislation came in, so it feels like MOD practice is everything is blanket inside. I don't think it's an option to ask for an uplift on rate, but I'm keen on the role as I think it's an interesting piece of work.
I have read on this site that if your caught by IR35 by default that deducting employers NI from the agreed rate is unlawful as Employer's NI is supposed to be paid on top of the agreed rates by the deemed employer, which if I went brolly would be the Umbrella. I have been in this situation before and of course what happens is that the Umbrella takes it out of your daily rate, which is a considerable chunk. I read here that contractors can reclaim what is rightfully theirs by employment tribunal, county court or HMRC within 3 months of leaving.
What's people's view on this?

[Lance]

I'll give good odds that clients hand the decision off to the agency and go with their advice on any given role. Agencies are, after all, the real experts on IR35, disguised employment, proper use of CEST and B2B contractual arrangements for temporary staff.

Oh, hang on...

you think that a client will hand over a decision, that potentially impacts the client legally and financially, if done wrong, to an agency?

[malvolio]

I'll give good odds that clients hand the decision off to the agency and go with their advice on any given role. Agencies are, after all, the real experts on IR35, disguised employment, proper use of CEST and B2B contractual arrangements for temporary staff.

Oh, hang on...

[PerfectStorm]

I'm hoping that the private sector will be a bit more intelligent about it and make themselves comply with 'outside IR35' policy via a few token methods

[Lance]

Blanket decisions under the current legislation are generally illegal because they fail the statutory duty of care. That's not to say that they all are, but in many cases they are and people should be challenging them rather than accepting them.

and this, if it comes to the private sector, will ensure that clients improve their understanding.

What will likely happen is that those contractors who are directed and controlled will end up with inside contracts. And genuine independent contractors will not only be outside, but will have less risk of flawed attempts by HMRC to shaft them.

[DeludedKitten]

Given the fact with hind sight when they rolled the IR35 reforms in the public sector, it would be unwise to say that the mass IR35 blanketing that occurred will not happen again with the pending IR35 reforms for private sector. Also it is simply not financially feasible for companies to do a case by case IR35 assessment of contractors on their projects, I'm simply going to fold my arms smoke my pipe and quietly wait till April when the deluge of posts come from people who originally thought they were outside of IR35 only to be told other wise by blanket decisions by clientco.

Blanket decisions under the current legislation are generally illegal because they fail the statutory duty of care. That's not to say that they all are, but in many cases they are and people should be challenging them rather than accepting them.

[BlackCountryContractor]

Unless you are genuinely outside of IR35 then you will/should have nothing to worry about...

Given the fact with hind sight when they rolled the IR35 reforms in the public sector, it would be unwise to say that the mass IR35 blanketing that occurred will not happen again with the pending IR35 reforms for private sector. Also it is simply not financially feasible for companies to do a case by case IR35 assessment of contractors on their projects, I'm simply going to fold my arms smoke my pipe and quietly wait till April when the deluge of posts come from people who originally thought they were outside of IR35 only to be told other wise by blanket decisions by clientco.

[Lance]

Unless you are genuinely outside of IR35 then you will/should have nothing to worry about...

Indeed. There's plenty of outside IR35 roles even in the public sector. The ones that are inside always were and lack of compliance by the PSCs was the issue.

[craigy1874]

Hi snk888

Best advice would be to stick with a brolly and wait out till October 29th and then get a clearer picture with the autumn statement (This will contain important information about upcoming changes to LTD companies concerning IR35 and the way we pay taxes as a ltd company) but there is nothing stopping you going ltd now but my two pennies is that ltd won't be a viable tax efficient way to contract past the 6th of April 2019 so you only have at best have 6 months to really enjoy contracting via ltd.

Unless you are genuinely outside of IR35 then you will/should have nothing to worry about...

[BlackCountryContractor]

Hi snk888

Best advice would be to stick with a brolly and wait out till October 29th and then get a clearer picture with the autumn statement (This will contain important information about upcoming changes to LTD companies concerning IR35 and the way we pay taxes as a ltd company) but there is nothing stopping you going ltd now but my two pennies is that ltd won't be a viable tax efficient way to contract past the 6th of April 2019 so you only have at best have 6 months to really enjoy contracting via ltd.

[northernladuk]

Deffo stay umbrella. If you went LTD you'd be on your own so put a good amount of effort in to researching and learning stuff for yourself.

If you do think you are up for it. Read all the links to the right hand side, starting with the first timers guide and then come back with some specific questions we can actually answer.