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Previously on "Question about expenses"

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  • FK1
    replied
    Originally posted by malvolio View Post
    Ermm...

    Strictly speaking she's not wrong. If you only have the one engagement since starting then that is your permanent workplace. It's only when you have more than one, or a reasonable expectation of getting more than one in a different location, that your home office kicks in as being your permanent workplace. And if you do get a second gig, then you can back claim your original contract T&S taxes.

    Of course, most people make the assumption that they will continue elsewhere, but that is not a given.
    Interesting nuance. So if he would back to permanent without having the second gig then that is in a affect one-off assignment and therefore...


    The fixed term appointment rule can potentially prevent a contractor from claiming any expenses or tax relief at all. This is designed to prevent the client’s location for one-off assignments from qualifying as temporary workplace.

    This rule might apply when, for example, an employee has left one job and is not starting the new one for three months and decides to contract for three months in between.

    HMRC says that the client’s site cannot be a temporary workplace if the contractor is working on a contract “that can be expected to last for all, or almost all, of the period for which he or she is likely to hold, or continue to hold, that employment”.

    Whether they are working via an umbrella company or limited company, the contractor will only be employed by that company for the duration of the contract, after which they start their new permanent job with their next employer. That means the client’s site cannot qualify as a temporary workplace and they cannot claim expenses and tax reliefs.
    Travel expenses: travel for necessary attendance: fixed term appointments and agency workers: fixed term appointments
    EIM32125 - Employment Income Manual - HMRC internal manual - GOV.UK
    Last edited by Contractor UK; 25 May 2019, 13:35.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam B Dynamo Accounts
    replied
    Looking to change

    Hi Jackthedog

    I'm not going to cover off the travel issue as I'm sure this has now been answered, it is allowable given the nature of your current contract as stated.

    The advice I want to give is about changing accountants, yes I have an interest because we are accountants but that's not why I'm commenting! Take your time when changing providers, the relationship with your accountant is a personal one, especially with contractor accountants as it is largely by phone/email and just because someone you know gets on famously with their accountant doesn't mean you will. There's a great sticky on here with names of contractor accountant firms who all have slightly different offerings and there's a list under the first-timers section on the web-site too - I would suggest you read a few posts on here, make a short list and call the ones you think you might like to work with - we're all happy to have a chat and answer your questions, then this way you get a feel for who you can work with and hopefully move forward without issue.

    Sam

    Leave a comment:


  • MrButton
    replied
    Originally posted by cosmic View Post
    I'm with intouch accounting. They are pretty good so far for the past year and on time with all the stuff that needs doing.

    Yes it should be claimable as you are outside of ir35 and it's only for 6 months so the 24 months rule is not applicable and on the portal it's set as an expense on your directors account that is owed back to you.

    My accountant is Daniel and he is pretty good. Free ir35 assessment takes a day or two for review and they have tax / housing specialist
    https://portal.intouchaccounting.com/portal/r/b/YQJK
    Same and very happy with them so far. However you should also consider using an IR35 specialist in addition. That said - all the advice I've received so far from Intouch has matched that I've received from QDOS.

    Leave a comment:


  • cosmic
    replied
    I'm with intouch accounting. They are pretty good so far for the past year and on time with all the stuff that needs doing.

    Yes it should be claimable as you are outside of ir35 and it's only for 6 months so the 24 months rule is not applicable and on the portal it's set as an expense on your directors account that is owed back to you.

    My accountant is Daniel and he is pretty good. Free ir35 assessment takes a day or two for review and they have tax / housing specialist
    https://portal.intouchaccounting.com/portal/r/b/YQJK
    Last edited by cosmic; 24 July 2018, 00:31.

    Leave a comment:


  • WTFH
    replied
    I've merged the two threads so that it makes sense to anyone reading.

    There's links on the right to contractor accountants, and you may get recommendations from individuals on here as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • malvolio
    replied
    Originally posted by Jackthedog View Post
    Sorry I didn’t think my update was clear and I didn’t feel was answered. You haven’t blown my mind...And I’m grateful thank you.
    She’s not getting it at all. I stated my perm work location was my home and trading address but she claims my engagement is in one location, even though away from home so I’m not entitled to relief. Throwing all kinds of jargon. Time to fire her.
    Thank you again
    Ermm...

    Strictly speaking she's not wrong. If you only have the one engagement since starting then that is your permanent workplace. It's only when you have more than one, or a reasonable expectation of getting more than one in a different location, that your home office kicks in as being your permanent workplace. And if you do get a second gig, then you can back claim your original contract T&S taxes.

    Of course, most people make the assumption that they will continue elsewhere, but that is not a given.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackthedog
    replied
    Thank you northernlad

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    Why have you posted this again when it's been answered in your other thread?

    Your permanent base is home and you travel to your client which is a temporary workplace. It's business travel. Maybe the home office is the bit she's missing. Anyway your other thread answers your question.

    Also, and I hope I'm not going to blow your mind here, but you aren't an employee of your LTD.
    Sorry I didn’t think my update was clear and I didn’t feel was answered. You haven’t blown my mind...And I’m grateful thank you.
    She’s not getting it at all. I stated my perm work location was my home and trading address but she claims my engagement is in one location, even though away from home so I’m not entitled to relief. Throwing all kinds of jargon. Time to fire her.
    Thank you again

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    Why have you posted this again when it's been answered in your other thread?

    Your permanent base is home and you travel to your client which is a temporary workplace. It's business travel. Maybe the home office is the bit she's missing. Anyway your other thread answers your question.

    Also, and I hope I'm not going to blow your mind here, but you aren't an employee of your LTD.
    Last edited by northernladuk; 18 July 2018, 22:02.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackthedog
    replied
    Further question about travel and accomodation expenses.

    Hi...I posted a query a few days ago and need a bit more advice please.

    I DONT AGREE HER ADVICE IS CORRECT AND SEEMS NOT TO BE APPLIED TO PEOPLE I KNOW IN VERY SIMILAR SITUATIONS. PLEASE ADVISE AND ALSO ANY RECOMENDED ACCOUNTANTS AS I AM LOOKING TO CHANGE ASAP.


    The update is:
    She came back to me, saying that it’s due to Intermediaries rules applied in April 2016. Which she believes that although I’m outside IR35 I’m still predominantly working in one location on this engagement so therefore not able to claim tax relief on travel and accomodation to the workplace. Is this correct?

    She stated:

    The 24 month rule relates to temporary workplaces (EIM32075 & EIM32080). Although, I appreciate, it may seem that London can be treated as a temporary workplace, however, as x Consultancy Services Limited is a Personal Service Company (PSC), one also needs to consider the “Employment Intermediaries” guidance (EIM32135), Section 339A ITEPA 2003, that was introduced on 6 April 2016, where it confirms, “…that each engagement undertaken by a worker who personally provides their services through an employment intermediary will be considered a separate employment for the purposes of travel and subsistence. This will mean that generally no relief will be given for home-to-work travel costs and associated subsistence…” for the employee.

    My original post detailed further background as follows

    I’m new to contracting and have just set up a PSC limited company (am director and am employee) and started as a worker providing IT Consultancy Services.

    I have a client for 6 months, and I will be working with them 100 miles away from home. On a 5 day week basis. I’m outside of IR35, this has been checked.

    My accountant is saying I can’t offset my travel expenses against my revenue so I would reduce my corporation tax bill. Is this really right? She is not a contractor specialist accountant.

    They are saying I either get a P11d value and tax implication or I have to pay my expenses personally and claim back through dividend (so would have already paid corporation tax).

    I always thought justifiable and appropriate travel expenses to a temporary work location were possible to offset against profit, have I been wrong?

    Leave a comment:


  • TheCyclingProgrammer
    replied
    You definitely need a better accountant.

    The intermediaries travel expense provisions apply to personal service companies ONLY if you are caught by IR35.

    If you are outside IR35 you can claim travel costs to a temporary workplace.

    https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-man...manual/esm5600

    See example 3.

    This was all widely published and discussed at the time.

    It is also covered here:
    I've heard that travel and subsistence expenses are changing? - KF Accounting Services

    Leave a comment:


  • northernladuk
    replied
    There is an accountant recommendation sticky at the top of the accounting section.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackthedog
    replied
    Thank you

    Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
    Firstly I'd point your accountant at threads such as these and ask her to explain herself in detail why she thinks you can't.

    Contractor Expenses: Meal Allowances

    or tell her to google it and see what she comes up with.

    Secondly...



    Based on the quote and this thread I'd go get a contractor specialist pronto...
    She’s still saying no...I need a new accountant any recommendations?

    She said...

    The 24 month rule relates to temporary workplaces (EIM32075 & EIM32080). Although, I appreciate, it may seem that London can be treated as a temporary workplace, however, as jack the dog Consultancy Services Limited is a Personal Service Company (PSC), one also needs to consider the “Employment Intermediaries” guidance (EIM32135), Section 339A ITEPA 2003, that was introduced on 6 April 2016, where it confirms, “…that each engagement undertaken by a worker who personally provides their services through an employment intermediary will be considered a separate employment for the purposes of travel and subsistence. This will mean that generally no relief will be given for home-to-work travel costs and associated subsistence…” for the employee.

    I mean she is even using the term employee!!!
    Last edited by Contractor UK; 25 May 2019, 13:34.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackthedog
    replied
    Help

    Originally posted by simes View Post
    I concur with the above. The accountant is wrong.
    Any recommendations?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackthedog
    replied
    Thank you...can you recommend at all?

    Originally posted by TheCyclingProgrammer View Post
    Get a better accountant.
    Can you recommend any? Ta

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackthedog
    replied
    Thank you...further question

    Hi all, thank for your help. Much appreciated.

    I challenged the accountant and she has come back with the following say I still don’t get relief. Does this sound right?

    The 24 month rule relates to temporary workplaces (EIM32075 & EIM32080). Although, I appreciate, it may seem that London can be treated as a temporary workplace, however, as Jack The Dogs Consultancy Services Limited is a Personal Service Company (PSC), one also needs to consider the “Employment Intermediaries” guidance (EIM32135), Section 339A ITEPA 2003, that was introduced on 6 April 2016, where it confirms, “…that each engagement undertaken by a worker who personally provides their services through an employment intermediary will be considered a separate employment for the purposes of travel and subsistence. This will mean that generally no relief will be given for home-to-work travel costs and associated subsistence…” for the employee.

    On this basis I will get no relief and I don’t agree. Other workers as contractors in my current contract (all through agencies on a similar basis) are able to offset, but I am not. Has she set me up incorrectly as a personal service organisation perhaps?

    I need a new accountant who specialises in contractors, can anyone reccomend please?

    Leave a comment:

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