Help - travel (maximum hours) and work in one day...

[psychocandy]

Thing is if client expects you to do this sort of thing and doesnt even note that its a pita or make allowances then you know there is trouble ahead. Most clients I know would at least, say is this ok with you, or offer to pay for train, or hotel or something.

To just assume you're going to do it a bit much. Same with clients who arrange things for weekend without asking first. Its common courtesy - I will try and fit in when I can but some things just ain't cancellable so its tough.

Remember permie days. Dropped on me at short notice - we're doing x on saturday. Wife was working (she was recovery nurse at the time). I said no can do I've got the kids. Manager attitude was "well, can't your wife not work". Umm let me see so some poor buggers operation gets cancelled because you want x upgraded. Do one. I was not popular when I pointed out that yes if something comes up in future and you give me notice, I will try to see if I can swap things but if I can't I can't.

Bottom line for me with things like this - ask nicely and show a bit of consideration and I'll do my best. Assume I'm going to drop everything or put the extra travel in and it'll be a no.

[washed up contractor]

Hi,

Looking for some thoughts on the following (Disregarding contract which I had to accept to get contract):

I am being asked to travel to a meeting in an office 4/5 hours drive away from my home. There is a scheduled afternoon meeting slot arranged at the destination followed by 4/5 hour drive back home.

If you are a professional driver the max hours in a day seems to be 10 hours.

The expectation is that I would drive for close to the 10 hours of a professional drivers limit plus do a 5 hour meeting - this without any breaks for food or comfort.

I am told no expenses are payable (contract as stated above) for an overnight stay.

A number of things spring to mind:

1 - It would seem that the company is shooting itself in the foot as by the time I arrive at the meeting I will already be pretty tired.
2 - It would appear that what the company is asking is very dangerous... tiredness kills as they say.
3 - Is there anything I can do?
-- Refuse to do it? - no further contract...
-- Pay for hotel myself and drive there the day before - there may well be more of these so not ideal.
-- Or stay in the hotel the night after the meeting - this would leave me being late for work the following day.
4 - Is this something that can be asked of someone legally? If time is added for comfort and tiredness breaks to journeys it might make 12 hours in total then some time added for a meal add the distant location say 1 hour it quickly adds up to near 18 hours without any real contingency for road works, accidents or other issues on the journey.
5 - Is there not a duty of care towards me regardless of contractor status?

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated...

many thanks

So what? Working on Merseyside I had about an hour's drive to contract location. The PM then wanted me to drive to Walton on Thames from Merseyside, attend a 4 hour meeting, drive home then be in work the next day all refreshed.

I said **** that, Im not driving that distance in a day, you can train or fly me. Ended up flying. (Funnily enough, I know one client that flew a permie from Newcastle to Poland and back in a day so he could give a speech at a Utilities conference!)

If you dont want to do it or think the journey is too long, suggest the client either pays for an overnighter, train or flies you there.

[psychocandy]

What is your contracted location? If the contract says one place and you now need to be somewhere else then raise that issue.

Is driving the only option?

Yep good point.

[northernladyuk]

Hi,

Looking for some thoughts on the following (Disregarding contract which I had to accept to get contract):

I am being asked to travel to a meeting in an office 4/5 hours drive away from my home. There is a scheduled afternoon meeting slot arranged at the destination followed by 4/5 hour drive back home.

If you are a professional driver the max hours in a day seems to be 10 hours.

The expectation is that I would drive for close to the 10 hours of a professional drivers limit plus do a 5 hour meeting - this without any breaks for food or comfort.

I am told no expenses are payable (contract as stated above) for an overnight stay.

A number of things spring to mind:

1 - It would seem that the company is shooting itself in the foot as by the time I arrive at the meeting I will already be pretty tired.
2 - It would appear that what the company is asking is very dangerous... tiredness kills as they say.
3 - Is there anything I can do?
-- Refuse to do it? - no further contract...
-- Pay for hotel myself and drive there the day before - there may well be more of these so not ideal.
-- Or stay in the hotel the night after the meeting - this would leave me being late for work the following day.
4 - Is this something that can be asked of someone legally? If time is added for comfort and tiredness breaks to journeys it might make 12 hours in total then some time added for a meal add the distant location say 1 hour it quickly adds up to near 18 hours without any real contingency for road works, accidents or other issues on the journey.
5 - Is there not a duty of care towards me regardless of contractor status?

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated...

many thanks

I think contractually, you need to either do the journey in one day, or stay over the night before or after at your own expense. Pragmatically, if they are not going to accept that you are late the next day for work and that that counts as working time, then I wouldn't work with them. Or if you are prepared to walk, offer them new terms (particularly if you weren't aware of the need to travel) which they can accept or you will give notice.

It is worth a go reasoning with them that this extends beyond a professional working day.

[TheFaQQer]

I am being asked to travel to a meeting in an office 4/5 hours drive away from my home. There is a scheduled afternoon meeting slot arranged at the destination followed by 4/5 hour drive back home.
...
I am told no expenses are payable (contract as stated above) for an overnight stay.

What is your contracted location? If the contract says one place and you now need to be somewhere else then raise that issue.

Is driving the only option?

[psychocandy]

Hmmm. Difficult one - I've seen worse though. Its not the end of the world though is it? Just shell for a travelodge before/after and tell client you'll be in a bit later next day. If they kick off or moan then you'll know for next time.

I had one client who was a nightmare. I was fine doing out of hours work but they never had a plan B if things went badly (upgrades and the like).

I was on their customer site at 9am once. Started at 4pm and it all went a bit wrong. By 3am the next morning it was a bit silly for me to keep working and they'd done nothing to get assistance/hand over to someone.

Got to bed at 4am. Had to book hotel at last minute - no clothes etc with me. 8am my phone was going - client asking me to attend review meeting at customer site at 900am. Told them do to one - I had no clean clothes or anything and had little kip. It as only about an hour or so drive from base so why they didnt send someone else I'll never know. Told them no it was not professional I'd be driving back and I'd phone someone else to give them handover on their way up here.

PM was well peed off at the time but when senior management at client got to hear they were not impressed that no contingency had been considered.

I pointed out that whereas I was willing to help working on critical systems in a 20 hour stretch with no kip was not clever and also I wasnt going to endanger mysely by driving with no kip.

[SteelyDan]

How desperate are you to keep the contract?

If t was me I’d be telling the client, politely, to stick their meetings. Have they not heard of Skype?

+1 on that

[TheCyclingProgrammer]

How desperate are you to keep the contract?

If t was me I’d be telling the client, politely, to stick their meetings. Have they not heard of Skype?

[SueEllen]

There aren't any stipulations but some clients have H&S rules that mean you have to argue a good case to drive to meetings regardless of who is paying.

In other words they expect you to use public transport for your full journey or the bulk of it, so one person driving for 5 hours one way won't happen.

For example you can drive/get a lift to a train station, then use the train, then at the other end if there isn't a bus you can get a cab. Then reverse the journey.

Obviously if there is over 90 minutes difference in journey time as you are expected to take breaks when driving, or the trains don't start early enough, or you have a good reason not to stay over the night before then you can argue that you can drive. However one of my clients refused to let people drive more than 3 hours one way regardless.

The rules on what parts they will reimburse you for are completely independent of their H&S rules.

[WTFH]

Where is the normal location as stated on the contract? How far from home is that, and how much further from there to the other location?
Is this a one-off/very occasional or is it going to be every week?

It sounds like you’re getting very stressed out over this, are you relatively new to contracting?

Let’s break it down:
Leave home at 9am (not having to leave any earlier or sit in commuter traffic). I would normally take a 5 minute break every 2 hours on a longer journey, so stop at 11am, have a quick coffee, stop around 1pm and grab a sandwich, at the site by 2pm for your meeting.
Leave the site when the meeting is over, and if you don’t fancy driving all the way home, then find somewhere halfway and stay there for the night. Sure it might mean you need to leave at 7am, but that’s not the end of the world.

Alternatively, if you aren’t prepared to drive, look at alternate modes of transport, such as a train.

[administrator]

Umbrella or Ltd? How often do you need to do this meeting?

If this was me and I was desperate enough to take a contract that had issues I wasn't comfortable then I would suck it up. Travel down the night before, even if I got to the hotel at midnight it would be no issue. Find somewhere cheap, pay for it through the Ltd, claim all mileage and you won't be that much out of pocket. Use the contract to build up cash and experience and hop at the earliest opportunity.

They aren't forcing you to drive 10 hours a day, if you do it all in one day that is your choice.

You aren't a professional driver, there are sales people on the road who do days like that week in, week out.

Depends how badly you need the gig IMO.

[eek]

What does your contract say about location of work...

However I often do 7+ hours travel (flying) followed by most of a days work and the reverse on a Thursday / Friday....

[coops]

Hi,

Looking for some thoughts on the following (Disregarding contract which I had to accept to get contract):

I am being asked to travel to a meeting in an office 4/5 hours drive away from my home. There is a scheduled afternoon meeting slot arranged at the destination followed by 4/5 hour drive back home.

If you are a professional driver the max hours in a day seems to be 10 hours.

The expectation is that I would drive for close to the 10 hours of a professional drivers limit plus do a 5 hour meeting - this without any breaks for food or comfort.

I am told no expenses are payable (contract as stated above) for an overnight stay.

A number of things spring to mind:

1 - It would seem that the company is shooting itself in the foot as by the time I arrive at the meeting I will already be pretty tired.
2 - It would appear that what the company is asking is very dangerous... tiredness kills as they say.
3 - Is there anything I can do?
-- Refuse to do it? - no further contract...
-- Pay for hotel myself and drive there the day before - there may well be more of these so not ideal.
-- Or stay in the hotel the night after the meeting - this would leave me being late for work the following day.
4 - Is this something that can be asked of someone legally? If time is added for comfort and tiredness breaks to journeys it might make 12 hours in total then some time added for a meal add the distant location say 1 hour it quickly adds up to near 18 hours without any real contingency for road works, accidents or other issues on the journey.
5 - Is there not a duty of care towards me regardless of contractor status?

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated...

many thanks