IR35 - IT only or all contractors and am I self-employed?

[Cirrus]

QDOS has come on here and said how many cases they have lost.

There have been posters who are members of IPSE who have stated how there tax investigations was just closed.

These you can find on this forum if you search for it.

That's not what you said.

You can't use QDOS/IPSE experiences because what you said is those who don't use them are worse off. So you can't ask QDOS and IPSE because they probably know diddley squat about the others.

You need a control group.

If you asked everyone reading the Daily Mail on a train whether reading the Daily Mail gets them in on time you really would need to consider whether all the other passengers actually arrived later.

I've watched this space since IR35 and as yet I've never seen any evidence that anybody can predict what the Revenue will do.

I accept that, if you come under attack, using QDOS etc gives you a massive advantage (almost decisive) but that's not anywhere the same as saying anybody knows who is going to get picked on.

It's frustrating (if I'm right that it's just a pure lottery) but it doesn't do anybody any credit if they come on here making statements that they simply cannot back up.

My view after all these years is it's like driving down the M6. You may get totalled but since virtually nobody has ever seen an accident you don't what you're supposed to avoid doing. Most people suck it up but if you are risk averse (and it's a free country) then go by train.

[SueEllen]

Do you have any evidence whatsoever for saying that? If so it would be good to share it with us.

QDOS has come on here and said how many cases they have lost.

There have been posters who are members of IPSE who have stated how there tax investigations was just closed.

These you can find on this forum if you search for it.

[Cirrus]

IPSE (and Abbey Tax) are prepared to put up a fight and challenge HMRC, often that's all that's needed for HMRC to move onto easier pickings.

Do you have any evidence whatsoever for saying that? If so it would be good to share it with us.

[pscont]

IPSE (and Abbey Tax) are prepared to put up a fight and challenge HMRC, often that's all that's needed for HMRC to move onto easier pickings.

All good but doesn't answer my question. Or it does but the answer is:

We get ~£200 to assess your contract. If we say it is outside and then HMRC challenges this we will put up a fight* (whatever that means) and if we loose the fight you pay the retro tax + NIC

*-read also the small print when we will NOT put up a fight.

[cojak]

Care to explain what authority do QDOS and IPSE (and other IR35 checkers) have on that matter? Will HMRC obey their IR35 assessment?

IPSE (and Abbey Tax) are prepared to put up a fight and challenge HMRC, often that's all that's needed for HMRC to move onto easier pickings.

[pscont]

Best thing you can do is have your contract and WP checked.

Care to explain what authority do QDOS and IPSE (and other IR35 checkers) have on that matter? Will HMRC obey their IR35 assessment?

[pr1]

OP didn't mention LtdCo at all either

Go umbrella and you won't have to worry about IR35, what you get paid in your bank account you'll keep and no further worry necessary

[Jessica@WhiteFieldTax]

I'd guess the answer is we don't really know. RoS has been proven a sham in a case but has been ignored (I think) and there are many other factors. How much D&C, part and parcel etc. They aren't cast in stone or silver bullets.

Best thing you can do is have your contract and WP checked, understand enough to stay outside IR35 and avoid looking like a permie on site. Worry about the rest when the letter hits your door mat.

But OP is proposing a Public Sector contract anyway?

[northernladuk]

I've seen threads in the past saying the three pillars were RoS, SDC, and MoO; if ANY OF THE THREE didn't apply you were outside, if all three apply then you have a fight on your hands. People now seem to suggest that failing just one dooms you.

Has this changed?

I'd guess the answer is we don't really know. RoS has been proven a sham in a case but has been ignored (I think) and there are many other factors. How much D&C, part and parcel etc. They aren't cast in stone or silver bullets.

Best thing you can do is have your contract and WP checked, understand enough to stay outside IR35 and avoid looking like a permie on site. Worry about the rest when the letter hits your door mat.

[BigRed]

I've seen threads in the past saying the three pillars were RoS, SDC, and MoO; if ANY OF THE THREE didn't apply you were outside, if all three apply then you have a fight on your hands. People now seem to suggest that failing just one dooms you.

Has this changed?

[chopper]

This position is for a council near me who need additional headcount in payroll but don't have the funding for a permanent person. So I would be working as per the job description of a permanent employee.

I've looked at this page on the HMRC website - https://www.gov.uk/employment-status...yed-contractor - and I don't think I'm going to be a self-employed person, because I'll have to work as per the council's employment policies.

Supervision, Direction & Control is a key test of IR35. From what you say, you would be IR35 caught on that alone.
Also, you say 'council', which means automatically within IR35 anyway.

Even without IR35, there is a point where using an Umbrella is more efficient than going the Limited Company route, and I imagine by 'payroll' you are probably under that point.

So all this says to me you should forget the Limited Company and just go Umbrella.

[malvolio]

IR35 still works for umbrella-using workers, but since you are paid net of PAYE and NICs it doesn't have any impact at all. Best way to go to get started IMO.

Have a look at the guides over there --> and go to Self-Employed & Freelancer Association | IPSE and download their Guide to Freelancing. It will cover most (if not all) your immediate questions and works for anyone working for themselves.

[Lance]

I'd already heard of IR35 and from what I've been reading, it refers a lot to IT contractors. So my first question is, are all contractors potentially subject to IR35 or just those working in IT?

Locum doctors in the NHS also.
It could be any LTD company but IT is the most common use of PSCs and is also more in the news for IR35 wins/losses.

[dkillen]

Hello

I've been doing fixed term contract work as a PAYE employee but this is the first time an agency has approached me for a contract as a Ltd company or through an umbrella company.

I'd already heard of IR35 and from what I've been reading, it refers a lot to IT contractors. So my first question is, are all contractors potentially subject to IR35 or just those working in IT?

If it is all contractors, then I assume when I receive my contract (assuming I get the job!) it will be a contract for services. This position is for a council near me who need additional headcount in payroll but don't have the funding for a permanent person. So I would be working as per the job description of a permanent employee.

I've looked at this page on the HMRC website - https://www.gov.uk/employment-status...yed-contractor - and I don't think I'm going to be a self-employed person, because I'll have to work as per the council's employment policies.

Sorry if I'm jumping ahead here, but the agent told me that if I went through an umbrella company, I wouldn't have to worry about IR35 but this doesn't seem to be the case from what I've read. I want to make sure that I know what I'm doing before I go further with this.

thanks in advance