Reply to: Client "away days" an IR35 risk?

[northernladuk]

Exactly. In my opinion you need to be Mr Helpful in the office whilst doing all the obvious stuff to back up your outside IR35 claim. Mr Helpful is going to have more invoicing opportunities than Mr Grumpy.

But as the post below yours shows it doesn't have to be like that if done properly. I'd you do professional job raising issues like this occasionally and just not pushing it too hard when it's a dead loss won't make any difference to your time there.

[kevpuk]

Had similar with client a couple of years back. Stated that I didn't feel comfortable that I could bill for giant Jenga and the likes, and if I couldn't bill I would not plan to attend. Client was very understanding, and suggested that much of the couple of days was very much relevant, but happy for me to duck out of anything that I was not happy with and fire up the laptop and work.

[Fred Bloggs]

There is that of course and I agree. Like I said you need to make the decision as to whats best.

What Im saying is dont just say no no no to client because that might not end well either.

I've seen it happen. Last client. Every other request was met with "not in my contract" with one guy. In the end, client had enough and gave him the boot. Yes he may have been spot on strictly speaking but it just didnt do him any favours.

Exactly. In my opinion you need to be Mr Helpful in the office whilst doing all the obvious stuff to back up your outside IR35 claim. Mr Helpful is going to have more invoicing opportunities than Mr Grumpy.

[psychocandy]

The thing is it sets a trend. Individual occasions won't be remembered, if HMRC come knocking, general behaviour will.
Trying to separate yourself is never popular, its just something we have to do.

If the OP wants an excuse he could say he is not insured by his LTD for these kind of non work related activities.

There is that of course and I agree. Like I said you need to make the decision as to whats best.

What Im saying is dont just say no no no to client because that might not end well either.

I've seen it happen. Last client. Every other request was met with "not in my contract" with one guy. In the end, client had enough and gave him the boot. Yes he may have been spot on strictly speaking but it just didnt do him any favours.

[TestMangler]

What is the view on whether this is a useful business development activity, so attend but don't bill (if you can stand it)?

What a terrible suggestion !!

[LondonManc]

What is the view on whether this is a useful business development activity, so attend but don't bill (if you can stand it)?

If it's mandatory, it's billable.

[Old Greg]

Rohypnol, sore 'arris, but let's not get off topic eh?

As long as there's a solid work-related reason, attend. If it's for the benefit of the project, attend. If it's to integrate you, avoid with an explanation that it's corporate team building, not your project team that's being built.

What is the view on whether this is a useful business development activity, so attend but don't bill (if you can stand it)?

[LondonManc]

Did they slip on a spilt drink and fall down the stairs?

Rohypnol, sore 'arris, but let's not get off topic eh?

As long as there's a solid work-related reason, attend. If it's for the benefit of the project, attend. If it's to integrate you, avoid with an explanation that it's corporate team building, not your project team that's being built.

[Old Greg]

I've seen fellow contracts refuse to sign H+S forms and all sorts - each times its ended badly....

Did they slip on a spilt drink and fall down the stairs?

[Karbim]

What Danglekt said. And I'd add if you don't draw a clear line, you're letting things slip over time. If the client can't understand, it's probably time to move on!

IR35 or not, as a contractor you should have no desire going to staff parties... because you're not staff. Also, the next day, you don't want them to know how much a contractor can drink.

Better safe than sorry .

[P2P]

I have had this, dodged a few, but where it was relevant to the piece of work I was doing, I have attended.

I had a chat with the Board member running it, explained why I was doing what I was doing, then emailed them thanking them for the invite, and that I was happy to attend the event in an advisory capacity.

It's not a negotiation, make your mind up and tell them what you are going to do. If you go in wobbly they will push and you'll cave, decide before hand what your red lines are.

It's a face to face type chat to introduce the reasons though, rather than emailing.

That's very sound advice. Thank you.

[Danglekt]

I have had this, dodged a few, but where it was relevant to the piece of work I was doing, I have attended.

I had a chat with the Board member running it, explained why I was doing what I was doing, then emailed them thanking them for the invite, and that I was happy to attend the event in an advisory capacity.

It's not a negotiation, make your mind up and tell them what you are going to do. If you go in wobbly they will push and you'll cave, decide before hand what your red lines are.

It's a face to face type chat to introduce the reasons though, rather than emailing.

[MrMarkyMark]

It depends on how "non-work related" the activities are. It may also be possible to do the meetings bits, then make excuses and leave.

Exactly what I was alluding to.

[jamesbrown]

Trying to separate yourself is never popular, its just something we have to do.

Bang on. It isn't something I've had a problem with as none of my clients really know what I do, only the outcomes, but all contractors must be aware of the need to distinguish themselves from employees. If this becomes a routine/conscious effort, it isn't a good sign.

[WTFH]

If the OP wants an excuse he could say he is not insured by his LTD for these kind of non work related activities.

It depends on how "non-work related" the activities are. It may also be possible to do the meetings bits, then make excuses and leave.