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Previously on "Claiming certification exam fees as expenses"

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  • TheFaQQer
    replied
    Originally posted by JoJoGabor View Post
    Every technical consultancy company trains their staff in new technical skills and pay for those courses
    You're not comparing like with like, though - in the case of larger organisations, it's much easier to show that they already have the work so therefore training a new skill isn't a problem.

    When I was permie, I did a load of Java training because there was lots of Java work around. I never used it, but I was trained because the company already had the work and might have needed me to pick some of it up.

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  • JoJoGabor
    replied
    Every technical consultancy company trains their staff in new technical skills and pay for those courses, of course it will be allowable. Most of us are multi-skilled consultants.

    Also I once took a training course before the incorporation of my company and my accountant (one of the reputable ones) told me I could back claim for such expenses. There was a time limit I think about how far back you can go (maybe 3 months) but cant remember for sure

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  • TheFaQQer
    replied
    Originally posted by Batcher View Post
    I've only ever did one training course about 17 years ago and claimed the cost back as the point was to make myself more marketable. In hindsight, it didn't bring any more business and I realised shortly afterwards that experience on the job was more effective than any amount of training courses.
    I went to Goa for three weeks for my training

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  • Batcher
    replied
    I've only ever did one training course about 17 years ago and claimed the cost back as the point was to make myself more marketable. In hindsight, it didn't bring any more business and I realised shortly afterwards that experience on the job was more effective than any amount of training courses.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheFaQQer
    replied
    Originally posted by moyabrit View Post
    I'm helpdesk/desktop support, and I wanted to take (at least some of) MCSA Windows 7, MCSA Server 2008, Comptia Linux+ and Network+.

    The Win 7 and the Linux would basically just be a rubber stamp of things I know now, whereas the Server and the Network+ would take more study, but I would still be filling gaps in my existing experience as opposed to starting from scratch. So as far as I can see, none of the exam fees would be capital spending because I'd just be certifying skills I already had, at the point when I sat that exam. Whereas taking a course or buying a textbook would be, so I'd only try to expense the exams.

    As far as I understood from Malvolio, I could only legitimately expense them if they were listed as requirements by my next client, and I'm still not sure if it makes a difference if I take the exams before hearing about that particular piece of work, or before setting up my company.
    I think it would be a particularly narrow view which says not to claim them - the things you are talking about are all related to your business, so I would have no qualms about claiming the training and certification if I was in your position.

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  • TheCyclingProgrammer
    replied
    Personally, I don't think looking at single contract requirements in isolation is helpful.

    You need to look at the bigger picture. What is your business? If it's providing software development services and you already know language X, then language Y starts getting popular and lots of work is coming up I'd have no problems claiming for a course on language Y if it helped bring in more business.

    On the other hand, if I decided to branch out and offer something completely different, say, photography, then I don't think a photography course would be claimable - it's not yet part of your trade. But if, having paid for a course personally, I ended up getting lots of business, I would then have no concern about putting further training or photography courses through the business.

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  • moyabrit
    replied
    Originally posted by TheFaQQer View Post
    So, what do you do and what are you trying to expense?
    I'm helpdesk/desktop support, and I wanted to take (at least some of) MCSA Windows 7, MCSA Server 2008, Comptia Linux+ and Network+.

    The Win 7 and the Linux would basically just be a rubber stamp of things I know now, whereas the Server and the Network+ would take more study, but I would still be filling gaps in my existing experience as opposed to starting from scratch. So as far as I can see, none of the exam fees would be capital spending because I'd just be certifying skills I already had, at the point when I sat that exam. Whereas taking a course or buying a textbook would be, so I'd only try to expense the exams.

    As far as I understood from Malvolio, I could only legitimately expense them if they were listed as requirements by my next client, and I'm still not sure if it makes a difference if I take the exams before hearing about that particular piece of work, or before setting up my company.
    Last edited by moyabrit; 29 January 2015, 17:36.

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  • TheFaQQer
    replied
    Originally posted by moyabrit View Post
    Never thought they were. I wanted to pay for exams right now with my personal cash, so I can sit them as soon as possible while I'm not in work, then claim them as expenses later on once I've got a new contract and started working again. Fair enough if it's against the rules though.
    Ultimately, I think it would come down to whether you could argue that the skills were reinforcing existing knowledge that is something related to what you do.

    For example, I'm not a DBA, but I am a technical developer. I deal with DBAs on every project, and therefore having some DBA knowledge wouldn't be a bad thing. Training to be a DBA would reinforce the existing knowledge that is applicable to the role that I am doing (even though it's not a DBA role). Therefore, if I did the DBA certification, I would have no qualms about expensing the training and the exam fees, even though the role that I am doing is not (nor will it ever be) that of DBA.

    So, what do you do and what are you trying to expense? If you could argue that they are close enough, then I'd claim it - I'm not suggesting you claim your photography course to help you as a website developer, but would anyone from HMRC be able to prove that a .net training course is disallowed because primarily you're a Java developer?

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  • moyabrit
    replied
    Originally posted by malvolio View Post
    If YourCo doesn't exist, how can you claim a business cost against it? Expenses aren't magic money, you (or YourCo) have to spend it to claim it. Also you can only claim things that are "wholly and exclusively" related to your business and you only save the tax anyway, either CT or PAYE.
    Never thought they were. I wanted to pay for exams right now with my personal cash, so I can sit them as soon as possible while I'm not in work, then claim them as expenses later on once I've got a new contract and started working again. Fair enough if it's against the rules though.
    Last edited by moyabrit; 29 January 2015, 16:48.

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  • malvolio
    replied
    Originally posted by moyabrit View Post
    Sorry, but do you mean the exam fees aren't claimable because my company doesn't exist yet, or because I don't yet have a specific job description in front of me which asks for those certs? It isn't clear which point you're responding to.
    If YourCo doesn't exist, how can you claim a business cost against it? Expenses aren't magic money, you (or YourCo) have to spend it to claim it. Also you can only claim things that are "wholly and exclusively" related to your business and you only save the tax anyway, either CT or PAYE.

    Leave a comment:


  • BolshieBastard
    replied
    Originally posted by moyabrit View Post
    So I've had a look at the training expenses guide, and wanted to be sure I understood it properly.

    IT contractor guide to training expenses :: Contractor UK

    This would be me as sole proprietor of my Ltd, claiming for exams that I would take myself.

    The "capital vs revenue" rule seems to exclude most types of training course, but if I self-taught (or took a course but didn't claim expenses for it), then wouldn't the exam fees on their own be allowable? On the basis that I was certifying knowledge I already possessed, even if I only gained that knowledge recently. The exams I want to take are for things I already know quite well, and I'm planning to fill any gaps in my experience by home study from textbooks, practice exams, Youtube etc.

    Would this depend on the person requirements for any work I was undertaking, ie that I could only claim for things my client insisted on? In that case, what about exams taken on spec before I am offered a contract, but which are likely to be useful in getting one?

    Finally, I haven't set up my Ltd yet. Been working thru a brolly until now. Would I need to launch the company before taking the exams, and would the company need to book and pay for them through its own bank account?
    Talk to your accountant.

    Ive put several training courses and exam fees through my then businesses. I havent had a problem with doing this.

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  • moyabrit
    replied
    Originally posted by malvolio View Post
    In which case they're not claimable. End of.
    Sorry, but do you mean the exam fees aren't claimable because my company doesn't exist yet, or because I don't yet have a specific job description in front of me which asks for those certs? It isn't clear which point you're responding to.

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  • vwdan
    replied
    Edit: Ignore me, misread.

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  • malvolio
    replied
    Originally posted by moyabrit View Post
    Thanks for answering. My question was a fairly narrow one, just about cert exam fees, and I'd only seen the question of training courses come up before. These will be for skills I already possess, give or take a bit of revision from books.

    Would you say I'm risking trouble if I claim for certs that turn out not to be required in my next job description (which I don't know yet)?

    I was only thinking of paying the fees myself because the company doesn't exist yet. I expect it will take a few weeks to get organised (including a bank account), and at the moment I'm a gentleman of leisure so I wanted to do the exams soonish, before my next gig starts.
    In which case they're not claimable. End of.

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  • moyabrit
    replied
    Originally posted by malvolio View Post
    This has been answered several times
    Thanks for answering. My question was a fairly narrow one, just about cert exam fees, and I'd only seen the question of training courses come up before. These will be for skills I already possess, give or take a bit of revision from books.

    Would you say I'm risking trouble if I claim for certs that turn out not to be required in my next job description (which I don't know yet)?

    I was only thinking of paying the fees myself because the company doesn't exist yet. I expect it will take a few weeks to get organised (including a bank account), and at the moment I'm a gentleman of leisure so I wanted to do the exams soonish, before my next gig starts.
    Last edited by moyabrit; 24 January 2015, 23:39.

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