Likelihood of HMRC investigation

[eek]

Well that's the whole point. Sit and whine about everything being inside IR35 no matter what you do or at least start to sew the seed in the clients' minds that the risks of hiring you on an outside contract are manageable and nowhere near as severe as they currently believe. If you don't think of yourself as a service provider then you'll never be one.

hey don't care (or can't afford to care, perhaps more accurately) as long as the money is coming in and they aren't interested in widening their skill set or experience but stay in their comfort zone. That's their decision of course, but they aren't the target here, it's the ones that have something of value to the market and want to have control of their own life.

If we don't make a noise, nobody else is going to.

Did you miss my comment earlier today about some renewals being determined inside following HMRC "Coffeeshop" chats where they reference the DWP and other departmental payments?

This is no longer the battle your average contractor needs to pay attention - which is why IPSE are desperately seeking a new business model only to find someone else beat them to it.

Just be glad you've retired...

[jamesbrown]

If we don't make a noise, nobody else is going to.

Forget about "sewing seeds" and "making noise". It is, and always has been, about supply and demand. Your average IT contractor has an average skillset, an average amount of influence and they don't want to behave like unionised labour. If you want outside gigs, you need to set yourself apart and offer something that a client actually needs and that few others can offer. Do that and IR35 is irrelevant and always has been.

[_V_]

Forget about "sewing seeds" and "making noise". It is, and always has been, about supply and demand. Your average IT contractor has an average skillset, an average amount of influence and they don't want to behave like unionised labour. If you want outside gigs, you need to set yourself apart and offer something that a client actually needs and that few others can offer. Do that and IR35 is irrelevant and always has been.

Yeah, you've pretty much nailed it there.

Client: We need an additional 20 mid level Java programmers / testers to supplement our inhouse developer capability for the next 12 to 24 months.
Result is inside IR35

Client: We need specialist skills here we don't have, cyber security expert for cloud native migration project, to deliver the project by Q3 2022. Top talent being acquired.
Result is outside IR35

[cannon999]

Sorry but very few IT contractors sell products or services. What they sell is their skillset on a time and materials basis for a period of time.

Service = work done/provided. IT contractors sell a software development service. Whether that's time and materials or fixed price - it's still a service.

[cannon999]

Yeah, you've pretty much nailed it there.

Client: We need an additional 20 mid level Java programmers / testers to supplement our inhouse developer capability for the next 12 to 24 months.
Result is inside IR35

Client: We need specialist skills here we don't have, cyber security expert for cloud native migration project, to deliver the project by Q3 2022. Top talent being acquired.
Result is outside IR35

Nonsense.

[NotAllThere]

Yeah, you've pretty much nailed it there.

Client: We need an additional 20 mid level Java programmers / testers to supplement our inhouse developer capability for the next 12 to 24 months.
Result is inside IR35

Client: We need specialist skills here we don't have, cyber security expert for cloud native migration project, to deliver the project by Q3 2022. Top talent being acquired.
Result is outside IR35

Spot on.

[eek]

Client: We need to supplement our inhouse resources.
Result is inside IR35

Client: We need specialist skills here we don't have
Result is outside IR35

FTFY - as that is by far the easiest criteria for an end client to use when assessing IR35 status.

[jamesbrown]

Yeah, you've pretty much nailed it there.

Client: We need an additional 20 mid level Java programmers / testers to supplement our inhouse developer capability for the next 12 to 24 months.
Result is inside IR35

Client: We need specialist skills here we don't have, cyber security expert for cloud native migration project, to deliver the project by Q3 2022. Top talent being acquired.
Result is outside IR35

Exactly.

[_V_]

FTFY - as that is by far the easiest criteria for an end client to use when assessing IR35 status.

It's exactly this, if you are sitting (either in person or remote) in a team where an outside person couldn't tell whether the work was done by one of the employees or by your company, then you are an outsourced employee / temp additional team member.

If it's pretty clear the service could not have been done by a current employee, because there is no capability inhouse to provide this level of service or product, you are outside IR35. It's 100% clear that you are not doing the same thing as any employee could do.

That's how I would differentiate and I'm sure the lovely tax investigation team will look at it.

I reckon <5% of contractors fit this criteria and that is most likely reflected in inside to outside role ratio.

[WTFH]

Forget about "sewing seeds" and "making noise". It is, and always has been, about supply and demand. Your average IT contractor has an average skillset, an average amount of influence and they don't want to behave like unionised labour. If you want outside gigs, you need to set yourself apart and offer something that a client actually needs and that few others can offer. Do that and IR35 is irrelevant and always has been.

Exactly.
Making noise gets people referred to HR. HR is for permies.

Delivering a solution that none of the permies have the skill to deliver is what a contractor does. Come in, deliver to the project requirement, get out.
If a company has an ongoing requirement of more than a couple of years for a particular skill set that they don't currently possess, then they should look to hire that skill set, otherwise they will be paying for a long time to come.

If someone is not sure what they are, then the next time you're on a project call, see how the work is divvied up, and are you treated the same as everyone else.
And if you're not on a regular project call, then you're most likely inside.