Originally posted by dave748
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IR35 Inside/Outside same supplier and ways of working? What to do?
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Originally posted by dave748 View Post
I know what a fixed fee for delivering a project is, there are other means of financial risk than paying for an entire project out of my own pocket which places me OUTSIDE. I've been through several determination questionnaires, and answering honestly about every aspect of my role ALWAYS results in an outside determination. I've never had an INSIDE determination yet.
Let's try another viewpoint - you are a PM. Does your current client employ any PMs on a permanent basis? If they do its actually very difficult to demonstrate that you aren't just a temporary replacement of a permanent resource (even if their current need is obviously temporary).. And the existence of permanent staff doing jobs very similar to yours does point to the role needing to be considered as inside.merely at clientco for the entertainmentComment
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Originally posted by dave748 View Post
It's complicated, the "end client" and the department making the decisions are essentially different parts of the same organisation. Working practices go something like this:
"This is kind of what we want, can you project manage it, design it, document it, build it and test it, give it to us when you're are done, we'll kick the tyres and throw it into production."
Tell me that's not OUTSIDE IR35 all day long?
As the end client has handed off the work to a supplier then I'd argue that it's the terms on which that supplier (your client) engage with its workforce that is the deciding factor here. How they choose to run the whole project and maintain control, etc over its workforce is what is being assessed, not what the end client asked their supplier to deliver.
Spot the subtle difference?Comment
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Originally posted by dave748 View PostThe reason why the determinations were different is that different people within the same organisation came to a different determination for what is essentially on paper the same role.
On what basis was your role determined inside. Did they use CEST, for example? If not, what reasons did they provide for saying it is inside?
I think your only option is to give your contract notice, and see if they change their mind. It's at this point you'll see how much they value your contribution.
I'm sure if you want to go legal, you'll be able find a lawyer willing to bleed your bank account dry to represent you, but I'd not hold out much hope for a positive outcome.
Last edited by Paralytic; 5 August 2021, 09:44.Comment
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Originally posted by eek View Post
But previously that was based on your judgement and now it's someone else's.
Let's try another viewpoint - you are a PM. Does your current client employ any PMs on a permanent basis? If they do its actually very difficult to demonstrate that you aren't just a temporary replacement of a permanent resource (even if their current need is obviously temporary).. And the existence of permanent staff doing jobs very similar to yours does point to the role needing to be considered as inside.'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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Originally posted by northernladuk View Post
Flogging a dead horse comes to mind heremerely at clientco for the entertainmentComment
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Originally posted by eek View Post
I know but it's one reason why I'm glad that I'm a technical specialist rather than a Project Manager, outside of a few consultancies and Microsoft as a whole there is no-one with my exact skillset.
Lets see what happens.Comment
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