Bit of advice? Venting...

[Paralytic]

And now you are guessing. The OP has stated a fact and it's all we have to go on. You mentioned two different situations in your post. One of them has to be wrong.

Wrong again. Let's see if the OP comes back to confirm what the client actually said.

[northernladuk]

Wrong again. Let's see if the OP comes back to confirm what the client actually said.

Whatever. Just be more careful when mention two different models in the same post.

[ladymuck]

Wrong again. Let's see if the OP comes back to confirm what the client actually said.

Unlikely. Most seem to post once and fade away.

[northernladuk]

Unlikely. Most seem to post once and fade away.

Snarf is an experienced poster so I'm sure he'll be back.

[GhostofTarbera]

Evening all,

Bit of an annoying situation, I started at a client last Jan originally for a three month contract, I had an IR35 Review with Qdos before starting, all was fine - found to be outside.
As far as I was concerned working practices and contract all lined up for an outside IR35 contract.


The client decided after three months that the project would move into another phase and asked me to extend, because that would take me over the date the April 2020 IR35 reforms were meant to come in I had a chat with the client and went through the QDos findings from my review, went through what I though the relevant bits of the working practices were to back this up. They agreed and said that when April 2020 came round I would be outside IR35.

Of course the reforms were then delayed for a year. During 2020 ClientCo was merged with another big firm, I got a few more extensions and now find myself contracting to the same company but with a few new levels of management.

Clientco have announced today that they have decided that from April 2021 all contractors will be inside IR35 and must go through one of three umbrella companies (I have another post looking for recommendations from the three in the umbrella thread).

They arrived at this determination by filling in a questionnaire on QDOS, I have seen the answers they gave and I don't feel that the tie in with our actual working conditions or contract clauses.

For example I think they have misunderstood what constitutes control (or I have) - This is a development role and because we do scrum and they have coding standards etc that is them having control, but QDOS didn't consider that an issue on any of my previous contracts (Or this one when it was reviewed).

They also said that they have the right to re-assign us as they see fit within the company *without our consent or approval* which is just not the case, its in the contract that we have the right to refuse work and there are teams/roles within the company that if they tried to move me to them I'd give notice...

Finally they have said that they would not accept a substitute which fair enough we've never tested this to my knowledge but its in the contract and they said last year that it would be Ok so theyve gone back on that too.

So I guess Im asking what are my options? from the three above I think the only one that is a bit sketchy is the substitution - Although its in the contract its not been tested.

Have I misunderstood what constitutes control? If so how can any development role ever be outside?

Ive emailed them with a list of my concerns regarding their answers to the questionnaire but I don't have any confidence that this will have any effect, it would be useful if anyone has any input on the above so that when I speak to them I have a bit more info (Specifically around the control & reassignment).

To be honest, I think I already know what will be said about this, Im just venting a bit because I'm annoyed.. lets see if there's an option I've not thought of.

Probably going to start looking for new roles in march but if nothing comes up just going to bit the bullet and go inside for the three months that will remain of my contract after April, I know theres a risk of retrospective investigation but I dont want to be out of work just as the reforms come in, during a pandemic... I'd rather take the risk and keep the money flowing for a few months extra.. but I need to weigh that up too.

Thanks in advance

Pay up last years tax, as you were inside IR35 all along


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

[Snarf]

As LM points out

I really doubt they've said everyone is inside IR35 - what they will be saying is that they won't be using labour provided via Personal Service Companies or words to that effect.

This is a good point, I'll need to clarify - from what I've seen it's a blanket determination, whether they will still engage with pscs in some circumstances I don't know

Have a call scheduled tomorrow with one of the management team so should get more info.

[Snarf]

I think it's premature to say it was wrong. I'd bet all my Dogecoin that the client has not determined everyone inside.

From what's been said to me so far, I think they have, they've not said "we won't engage with ltd companies any more" they've said "we've found all of the contractors in the IT department to be inside ir35".

Though I'll get more info tomorrow, it might just be a badly worded email that's less to the confusion.

[Snarf]

Snarf is an experienced poster so I'm sure he'll be back.

Indeed, like a nasty rash you just can't get rid of, I'm back!

I'd have been back on earlier but I've had a busy day gossiping with my fellow contractors and not doing much work.

I'm going to clarify exactly what is happening with the client tomorrow so will pop back on and update then.

To be honest I think I've resigned myself to going inside from April, I doubt they'll change their minds over any arguments I can make and I don't want to push it to the point that I burn any bridges!

[Snarf]

Pay up last years tax, as you were inside IR35 all along


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

While I appreciate the comment, I strongly disagree.

I did my due diligence, I had reviews of the contract and working practices (well as best I could for the wp because it was before I started) the client assessed the contract outside during the run-up to the 2020 changes (and they're quite a risk averse company) all that's changed is that the new owner is even more risk averse.

But you know, it's all a bit subjective, I'm sure HMRC would agree with you

[Snarf]

Question,

If they say everyone is inside ir35 or that they just don't deal with ltd company contractors the outcome is very similar.

But it seems to me that the latter would be better for me as it wouldn't mean that my status would change during the contract.

I'd be outside for just over a year and then move to a contract via brolly because the client doesn't work with ltds any more.

Is that right? Would that be better for the contractors?