Here we go again...IR35 determination

**northernladuk** · 28 August 2020, 16:03

And you didn't think about this when you joined as outside when you knew it was going inside?

**ladymuck** · 28 August 2020, 16:15

Other than your own determination of outside, what other evidence do you have?

**simes** · 28 August 2020, 16:18

Originally posted by BABABlackSheep View Post

Ok.. I’m with a client who blanketed all contractors inside IR35 last year.. before I joined.

Just as I joined IR35 got pushed back. All the contractors here are still outside.

My own determination for my particular role was Outside.

Company just sent an email out.. everyone blanketed inside again.

I have a new contract on the table till end of the year..

So.. what do I do..

..thoughts?

Can you confirm the following?

1. Is the client Private Sector? Am guessing yes.
2. Ref the email, are they blanket assessing everyone as being inside, OR, are they just saying they refuse to use contractors? If the former, one should be able to report them to the (probably ambivalent) HMRC.
3. Before going down that route, within said email, is there any provision to make them aware that they have to actually assess, and that they should, by April, confer following the completion of an SDS?
4. Have you got a name from whom the email came? Sound like they need to be educated. Easier said than done in a large blue chip.

Failing any bright ideas, keep renewing as Outside to April and if they want to chuck you Inside before then, remind them it is neither their right nor obligation to do so.

And before I get shot down in flames, I am completely aware that in large part, you might just end up in shouting at the moon. But, until one tries to educate, there won't be any education.

**BABABlackSheep** · 28 August 2020, 16:19

Originally posted by northernladuk View Post

And you didn't think about this when you joined as outside when you knew it was going inside?

I made my decision based on my contract and working practices at that time.

When covid came, all staff were sent home. The company had a rule that no contractors were allowed to work from home. Therefore, contractors were not allowed to bill whilst permanent staff were paid still.

Disguised employee? Really.

**BABABlackSheep** · 28 August 2020, 16:27

1. Is the client Private Sector? Am guessing yes.

Yes

2. Ref the email, are they blanket assessing everyone as being inside, OR, are they just saying they refuse to use contractors? If the former, one should be able to report them to the (probably ambivalent) HMRC.

They assessed every role.. every single role was judged inside. I hadn’t joined when they assessed. Got told by the agent to assume inside as everyone else was.

3. Before going down that route, within said email, is there any provision to make them aware that they have to actually assess, and that they should, by April, confer following the completion of an SDS?

They assessed roles last Jan. My role is different than the rest of the project. Also as per other post, they didn’t pay contractors for weeks because of no wfh contractor policy.

4. Have you got a name from whom the email came? Sound like they need to be educated. Easier said than done in a large blue chip.

Corporate mail.

**jamesbrown** · 28 August 2020, 16:30

Your mistake was taking the contract, but that's easy for me to say...

As things stand now, you're a bit fooked. If the client says you're inside, based on your current working practices, your prospects are not good, other than being lucky and avoiding investigation (e.g., because the client is not very high profile and doesn't have a lot of contractors onsite). If you have collected excellent evidence to the contrary (contract and wp review, evidence collected during contract), then you could carry on as normal (or terminate to reduce exposure) and hope for the best. If you don't have excellent evidence to the contrary and the client is high-profile with many onsite contractors, your best bet is probably to pay up now and call it a lesson learned.

**eek** · 28 August 2020, 16:31

Originally posted by BABABlackSheep View Post

Also as per other post, they didn’t pay contractors for weeks because of no wfh contractor policy.

I'm at a loss as to why you think this is important - no work was available to be done hence you didn't have any work to do. That's got nothing to do with anything else.

The client thinks everyone is inside - probably for corporate issues coming from above. So you choice ares based on the information you now have:-

1) Assume the rule has always been inside and pay the appropriate tax

2) leave. Now you don't need to 100% leave today but you do need to leave sooner rather than later....

And the agent did warn you so....

**BABABlackSheep** · 28 August 2020, 16:47

Originally posted by eek View Post

I'm at a loss as to why you think this is important - no work was available to be done hence you didn't have any work to do. That's got nothing to do with anything else.

The client thinks everyone is inside - probably for corporate issues coming from above. So you choice ares based on the information you now have:-

1) Assume the rule has always been inside and pay the appropriate tax

2) leave. Now you don't need to 100% leave today but you do need to leave sooner rather than later....

And the agent did warn you so....

Its a big company.

1) I’ll speak to my accountant.

2) As far as I’m aware, no SDS was sent to HMRC.

My concern is what do I do with this new contract?

**BABABlackSheep** · 28 August 2020, 16:51

Originally posted by jamesbrown View Post

Your mistake was taking the contract, but that's easy for me to say...

As things stand now, you're a bit fooked. If the client says you're inside, based on your current working practices, your prospects are not good, other than being lucky and avoiding investigation (e.g., because the client is not very high profile and doesn't have a lot of contractors onsite). If you have collected excellent evidence to the contrary (contract and wp review, evidence collected during contract), then you could carry on as normal (or terminate to reduce exposure) and hope for the best. If you don't have excellent evidence to the contrary and the client is high-profile with many onsite contractors, your best bet is probably to pay up now and call it a lesson learned.

The company sent an email saying all determinations were void. Contractors perform your own, which I did.

Now its sent another saying, previous evaluations stand.. wtf!!

Here we go again...IR35 determination