IR35 - Did the big firms collude and break competition law?

[northernladuk]

I love that a serious topic is just a playground for your inside-baseball jokes. I don't come here often, but I do recognise your profile and I'm unsure of ever seeing a sensible contribution from you.

Ok ok. Dry your eyes mate and chin up. I'll stop with the banter....

So have a look at this quick guide to competition law.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...t-A-Glance.pdf

Does any of that come close to the PSC situation? Here it is in words if this helps with the details

How to comply with competition law - GOV.UK

If any of this is interesting to you then you can go here for more information, quizzes and more.

Competition law guidance - GOV.UK

I've only had a quick scan and that appears to tell me quite clearly you are barking up the wrong tree.

[unixman]

I've had several conversations of late where people anecdotally mentioned that the IR35 impact to companies isn't as great as feared...

The financial corporations are frightened of the government, ever since the bank bailouts and the string of IT and security scandals that followed. Their overreaction isn't price fixing, they are just terrified of getting into trouble and are acting out of self-preservation.

[ladymuck]

Nearly. It's PC with the little guy and Ladymucks job to be tasty.

An acquired taste...

[NotAllThere]

I've had several conversations of late where people anecdotally mentioned that the IR35 impact to companies isn't as great as feared.

People have said, there's been an emotional reaction, but ultimately, very few contractors have chosen to move on.

Each time, I've asked, "Why do you think that is?"

A consistent response has been, "Because all the large companies had the same response, PSC bans, all contractors through umbrella companies. If companies all took a different approach, then there would have been large movements of contractors to those with a more flexible approach and a greater impact would have been seen"

Each time, I've asked, "How did they all end up using the same approach?"

A common response has been, "oh the larger resourcing companies ran working groups with companies to help them form a consistent response". By "larger resourcing companies", read Alexander Mann, Resource Solutions, etc.

So...

I'm no lawyer, but I work in markets where collusion and competition law are a factor. There are laws that stop cartels from working together to disadvantage market participants. These laws are there to encourage market liquidity and fair competition. If the above is true, and it feels like it could be, these laws would have been broken

Has this been discussed before and is there a legal opinion in the group that has a view?

This is nonsense. IR35 as originally mooted in 1999 put the liability on the client or agent. Just as it is already with sole traders. Business lobbying caused the government to make the contractors liable.

[eek]

This is nonsense. IR35 as originally mooted in 1999 put the liability on the client or agent. Just as it is already with sole traders. Business lobbying caused the government to make the contractors liable.

And 20 years of businesses and contractors pushing their luck means the Government now have no choice but to get businesses to actually decide how, why and in which way they wish to employ people.

Do they want to employ contractors and treat them as contractors?
or do they really want employees?

Businesses can no longer use contractors to provide employees.

[AnthonyQuinn]

Each time, I've asked, "How did they all end up using the same approach?"

Because it's the most sensible one. There are some morons who have come up with a detailed evaluation process which they are suggesting to clients. As if business leaders were watching paint dry in spare time which they could now use to evaluate individual contractors.

[unixman]

Calm down dears. "Inside IR35 but rates to accommodate"


DevOps Architect, Openshift, Kubernetes Specialist, to GBP1200 day, North East England - Newcastle Tyne & Wear - February-21-2020 (HnJoO)

1.2k per day.

[Andy Hallett]

In short answer to the OP’s question, not a chance these firms would have colluded to make this happen. Apologies for bumping a thread that should have died.

[SussexSeagull]

They reached the same conclusion to minimise risk in upcoming years.