Sky's current thrust

[ComplianceLady]

To be frank, I would assume any large blue chip, from a contractor usage point of view, will be a known name.

Are there any such companies that are known Not to use contractors? Must admit I have not come across that information before if they do exist.

As for webberg's comment, I would submit right now, disputes are Exactly what are needed. Otherwise, that oft made comment about the pleasures of contracting, this of control, will become a thing of the past.

And in the same way when HMRC took contractors to court to Not prove their point, so too do there need to be some people standing up and shouting here. Points have to be made out there and they aren't going to be made by rolling over.

I have suggested if there is enough solidarity among contractors at Sky, if everyone were to just walk come April, then in the same way Public sectors have 'found' a way to offer outside contracts, so too will Sky realise they have to get stuck in.

I wish them luck.

Every 'Large' business in the UK has an allocated HMRC 'customer advisor', they make contact with those business' far in advance and give them 'guidance on compliance'.

[simes]

Am now wishing I had commenced a separate thread. One specific area of Samsung is offering a ray of hope. This just in from a friend for whom I was offering insight.

Hey [simes],
I did the new CEST tool questionnaire this morning and got an 'outside IR35' response from them.
We had the meeting with Qdos this morning. The boss got clarification from them on some of the questions. He can change them to be more positive. I asked to have my HMRC CEST added to the details but she said their insurance wouldn't cover the response from them; it has to come from their own questionnaire. We discussed a lot and she agreed to update several of the areas in their questionnaire and send back to us for review. She has already updated my review based on the discussions in the meeting and it has come back as outside IR35 :-)
For now, it's good. We need to get this passed over to HR to agree to all the questions and answers. After that, there should be no issue.
I'm not out of the woods yet, but it's looking more promising!
Cheers for all the info fella. It really helped me in the meeting.

Two points of interest here;

1. Samsung (or this area within) are in firm negotiations to pragmatically resolve. Very good news, am sure you will agree.
2. Samsung do not want to use the CEST tool. I have asked why not as, absence of MoO aside, it seems to be doing roughly the right thing.

[eek]

Am now wishing I had commenced a separate thread. One specific area of Samsung is offering a ray of hope. This just in from a friend for whom I was offering insight.



Two points of interest here;

1. Samsung (or this area within) are in firm negotiations to pragmatically resolve. Very good news, am sure you will agree.
2. Samsung do not want to use the CEST tool. I have asked why not as, absence of MoO aside, it seems to be doing roughly the right thing.

Point 3 - the CEST tool asks questions in a way that biases people towards the wrong answer as HMRC's questions are based on their definition of phrases which will differ from how anyone else would define the phrase.

I can't remember the main explains but from memory how CEST defines control is very different from how an ordinary manager would define it.

[LondonManc]

I’ve a friend at EY he said business was booming for 1st time in years as they replace experienced contractors with fresh faced grads


Sent from my iPhone using Contractor UK Forum

Yep. Stage one has begun. Big Four feather their nests by steering IR35 determination in their favour. Stage two comes as ClientCo go apetulip at the lack of pace of delivery compared to the cost versus previous year with seasoned contractors doing the work. Stage Three leads to ClientCo revising working practices and binning off predatory consultancies.

[simes]

2. Samsung do not want to use the CEST tool. I have asked why not as, absence of MoO aside, it seems to be doing roughly the right thing.

Apparently it is Qdos who are not using the CEST tool because their insurance is based on their own questionnaire.

Sounds to be in good hands.

[ComplianceLady]

Am now wishing I had commenced a separate thread. One specific area of Samsung is offering a ray of hope. This just in from a friend for whom I was offering insight.



Two points of interest here;

1. Samsung (or this area within) are in firm negotiations to pragmatically resolve. Very good news, am sure you will agree.
2. Samsung do not want to use the CEST tool. I have asked why not as, absence of MoO aside, it seems to be doing roughly the right thing.

I'd say it's more likely that Samsung want insurance, no policies will insure a CEST outcome and Qdod specifically will only insure their own. It's VERY easy to get a false outside on CEST if you answer substitution positively - that means HMRC only have to show the way it was answered doesn't affect reality to change the determination.

[simes]

It's VERY easy to get a false outside on CEST if you answer substitution positively - that means HMRC only have to show the way it was answered doesn't affect reality to change the determination.

Can I refer you to my (currently) last post on this thread which answers Substitution fairly, and I had returned an Outside verdict.

https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...cest-tool.html

[dsc]

o There is an expectation to receive work under the contract, and no right to refuse work i.e. there is Mutuality of Obligation.

This is ridiculous, how the hell is there no right to refuse work? they will chain you to the desk and keep you there?

[ladymuck]

This is ridiculous, how the hell is there no right to refuse work? they will chain you to the desk and keep you there?

Yep, that's how they treat permies

[krytonsheep]

We need to get this passed over to HR to agree

Will be interesting to see how that pans out. I would use the term Samsung loosely as it maybe the case that only a couple of contractors on certain teams are given outside IR35 contracts, but the fact they've got QDOS involved is a very good sign.

I have suggested if there is enough solidarity among contractors at Sky, if everyone were to just walk come April, then in the same way Public sectors have 'found' a way to offer outside contracts, so too will Sky realise they have to get stuck in.

Sky's approach has been fairly good. They've offered the 'good' contractors they want to keep a salary + bonus which is equivalent to their daily rate outside of IR35.