Originally posted by PCTNN
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IR35 when it is public sector
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Make Mercia Great Again! -
Originally posted by mudskipper View PostOne possibility is that they are happy to accept a substitute - that gives a straight outside determination on CEST.
Anyway, thanks very much for all the replies and advice. Personally, I'm very averse to risk so in case I get an offer, I will decline it.Comment
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Originally posted by Lance View Postyour contract may have been. What about the working practises?
I suppose in theory BAU is OK as long as you have deliverables, and you don't deviate from those deliverable. Proving that is likely harder though.
If you are in effect doing the same work as a permie, just paying less tax, then I'd not fancy your chances in a tribunal trying to argue that you're not a disguised employee. I'd be buying TLC35 at that point.
I work exclusively from home.
No one supervises me in person, clearly.
No one directs what I do, or how I do it, it is a reactive role, i.e. if there is an issue within my responsibilities, I am required to fix it.
There are no UK based permies employed doing the same role.
I attend at hours solely at my choosing but generally during office hours, there is a 24 hour SLA.
MyCo has professional indemnity insurance.
MyCo has employer and public indemnity insurance.
and finally, I have a contractual right of substitution.
I can't see HMRC being able to successfully challenge those in the FTT.
oh, and I have tax investigation insurance provided by Markel Tax.Comment
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Originally posted by JohntheBike View Postthe contract review includes extensive questions about working practises in conjunction with the contract. But just to recap
I work exclusively from home.
No one supervises me in person, clearly.
No one directs what I do, or how I do it, it is a reactive role, i.e. if there is an issue within my responsibilities, I am required to fix it.
There are no UK based permies employed doing the same role.
I attend at hours solely at my choosing but generally during office hours, there is a 24 hour SLA.
MyCo has professional indemnity insurance.
MyCo has employer and public indemnity insurance.
and finally, I have a contractual right of substitution.
I can't see HMRC being able to successfully challenge those in the FTT.
oh, and I have tax investigation insurance provided by Markel Tax.
When did yourCo having insurance have anything to do with IR35
But, as always, why has this come round to you again?'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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Originally posted by northernladuk View PostAdd in the fact you've been doing it for 14 years will further encourage HMRC whatever the outcome.
When did yourCo having insurance have anything to do with IR35
But, as always, why has this come round to you again?Add in the fact you've been doing it for 14 years will further encourage HMRC whatever the outcome.
When did yourCo having insurance have anything to do with IR35
But, as always, why has this come round to you again?
your contract may have been. What about the working practises?Comment
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Originally posted by JohntheBike View Postthe contract review includes extensive questions about working practises in conjunction with the contract. But just to recap
I work exclusively from home. Not very relevant and a minor issue. Location is not indicative of any SD&C or lack thereof. Most of my time work at home but are employees.
No one supervises me in person, clearly. Again, a simplistic answer. Presumably somebody is looking at quality control and if your work falls short of that (or exceeds it) a conversation is had?
No one directs what I do, or how I do it, it is a reactive role, i.e. if there is an issue within my responsibilities, I am required to fix it.
There are no UK based permies employed doing the same role. So what? There is no comparison or benchmark test involved in IR35.
I attend at hours solely at my choosing but generally during office hours, there is a 24 hour SLA. The SLA will help if it is part of a payment mechanism based on milestones.
MyCo has professional indemnity insurance. No that weighty a point.
MyCo has employer and public indemnity insurance. see above.
and finally, I have a contractual right of substitution. Fine, but given that you claim to have specialist legacy skills is it really the case that a substitute would be found who is suitable and acceptable to the end client. If the right exists on paper but is not a practical possibility, it's weight is diminished.
I can't see HMRC being able to successfully challenge those in the FTT.
oh, and I have tax investigation insurance provided by Markel Tax.Best Forum Adviser & Forum Personality of the Year 2018.
(No, me neither).Comment
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Originally posted by JohntheBike View Post...I work exclusively from home...
...I attend at hours solely at my choosing but generally during office hours, there is a 24 hour SLA...
Originally posted by JohntheBike View PostNo one directs what I do, ... it is a reactive role, i.e. if there is an issue within my responsibilities, I am required to fix it.
How do you become aware that it needs fixing? Does someone direct you to the problem, which you then react to?
Originally posted by JohntheBike View Postand finally, I have a contractual right of substitution.
Originally posted by JohntheBike View Postoh, and I have tax investigation insurance provided by Markel Tax.…Maybe we ain’t that young anymoreComment
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Originally posted by JohntheBike View Postyou know full well that length of contract has little or no bearing on employment status.
IMO the fact you've been doing a BAU role longer than most permies should be a factor and I believe a bit of common sense would back that up. 14 years is extraordinary and could easily test any existing thoughts on time as a factor.
Remember, one of the only cases HMRC have won (or split as it was) had time as a major factor. JLJ lost his case on the fact he'd been there a long time and slipped in to bad ways. If he hadn't been there as long he wouldn't have lost. That, to me, says that time IS a factor.
Just quoting the rules say time doesn't have a bearing, particularly with that length, is a very naive view.
Remember, QDOS have a clause that says they won't cover a role they can't win (or something along those lines. Will QDOS really want to be taking on a case with that length of time that has never been tested bearing in mind the costs they'll rack up if you lose?
Out of interest, what level is your insurance at? If you lose what will they cover? I really don't think the basic 50k is going to cover your situation so I wouldn't be sitting quite so comfortably as you appear to be doing so.
It's one of the questions asked by the insurers who believe that having such insurance is a pointer to self employment. Do keep up.
because I was asked this question -
your contract may have been. What about the working practises?
I work on BAU support and my contract has been professionally assessed by Markel Tax as not subject to IR35Last edited by northernladuk; 9 October 2019, 10:51.'CUK forum personality of 2011 - Winner - Yes really!!!!Comment
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[QUOTE=northernladuk;2687713]Using the technicalities of the rules you'd be right. In reality length of time brings with it apathy and part and parcel comes in to play. You've got to have dotted every single i and t for that entire period. Slight lapses will occur and also the clients view on you will change which you can do nothing about.
IMO the fact you've been doing a BAU role longer than most permies should be a factor and I believe a bit of common sense would back that up. 14 years is extraordinary and could easily test any existing thoughts on time as a factor.
Remember, one of the only cases HMRC have won (or split as it was) had time as a major factor. JLJ lost his case on the fact he'd been there a long time and slipped in to bad ways. If he hadn't been there as long he wouldn't have lost. That, to me, says that time IS a factor.
Just quoting the rules say time doesn't have a bearing, particularly with that length, is a very naive view.
Remember, QDOS have a clause that says they won't cover a role they can't win (or something along those lines. Will QDOS really want to be taking on a case with that length of time that has never been tested bearing in mind the costs they'll rack up if you lose?
Out of interest, what level is your insurance at? If you lose what will they cover? I really don't think the basic 50k is going to cover your situation so I wouldn't be sitting quite so comfortably as you appear to be doing so.
It might be but it's pretty irrelevant as evidence goes.
Yes, because you butted into a question about public sector with
Just quoting the rules say time doesn't have a bearing, particularly with that length, is a very naive view.
Remember, QDOS have a clause that says they won't cover a role they can't win (or something along those lines. Will QDOS really want to be taking on a case with that length of time that has never been tested bearing in mind the costs they'll rack up if you lose?
Which is totally irrelevant as you aren't in the PSComment
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