Public sector renewal

**jamesbrown** · 6 February 2017, 15:41

You don't seem to understand the very basics of IR35 (even the comment about "structuring your business" is revealing), so I'd worry about that before the upcoming PS changes. None of those things discriminate between employees and contractors, so they're all completely irrelevant w/r to your IR35 status on a particular contract. The status of your contract w/r to IR35 is determined by your working practices and whether they resemble employment.

In terms of the PS changes, you'd be well advised to avoid any extension that takes a payment beyond April 5. At the very least, after April, you don't currently know what the status of that contract will be (probably inside) and, if it changes, you'll be in a difficult position trying to argue that it wasn't (inside) all along.

**DaveB** · 6 February 2017, 15:52

Originally posted by newbieITContractor2015 View Post

Hi,
I started a good public sector contract last October, which my client is keen to renew. The setup is a little awkward, it's basically large national outsourcer -- third party company --- my Ltd company.

I've structured my business outside of ir35 and had the contract amended for ir35 clauses. The contract is likely to be renewed before April, I'll be talking to the third party soon about the new changes. I wanted to ask a couple of points:

1. My client, the third party generates an invoice on my behalf and sends me a remittance. I take it for this to be outside of ir35 I need to generate my own invoice to send the client?

2. I use the end customer's PC in addition to my own whilst on site - there's no way to get around this due to the customer's own security and network requirements. What's the HMRC's view on this (Microsoft consultants also use the customers equipment whilst onsite).

3.Does signing into the visitors log book each day make a difference from an ir35 perspective?

Thanks

Self Billing - Where the agent or another party generates the invoice on your behalf and then pays it is not an IR35 indicator.

Use of the end clients equipment is not an IR35 indicator. Security and confidentiality concerns make it reasonable for anyone working on site for the client to be required to use their equipment regardless of employment status. A better indicator would be if you are able to use your own equipment to work on the clients behalf when working off site.

Signing the visitors log is marginal at best although it could be argued that it points to you being outside IR35 if the permies don't have to do the same.

The biggest issue you have is that come April any payments you receive will more than likely be classed as deemed income and taxed. You may also then end up trying to argue with HMRC about why you shouldn't have been taxed on all the payments before April if nothing has substantially changed about the nature of the engagement.

The only way to avoid this is to not renew and go get a gig in the private sector, and make sure you tell the end client why.

**northernladuk** · 6 February 2017, 16:12

Unfortunately the OP was thrashing around with IR35 back in September with guesses as to how he can appear outside and missing the mark.

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ml#post2315865

There was a URL removed from that post which was a X tips to keep you outside IR35.

Looks like he didn't take the advice back then to understand it properly and also to get a grip of what is happening in the PS which is a shame. He could have been ahead of the game at this point.

**Andy Hallett** · 6 February 2017, 16:43

Originally posted by newbieITContractor2015 View Post

Hi,
I started a good public sector contract last October, which my client is keen to renew. The setup is a little awkward, it's basically large national outsourcer -- third party company --- my Ltd company.

I've structured my business outside of ir35 and had the contract amended for ir35 clauses. The contract is likely to be renewed before April, I'll be talking to the third party soon about the new changes. I wanted to ask a couple of points:

1. My client, the third party generates an invoice on my behalf and sends me a remittance. I take it for this to be outside of ir35 I need to generate my own invoice to send the client?

2. I use the end customer's PC in addition to my own whilst on site - there's no way to get around this due to the customer's own security and network requirements. What's the HMRC's view on this (Microsoft consultants also use the customers equipment whilst onsite).

3.Does signing into the visitors log book each day make a difference from an ir35 perspective?

Thanks

1) Incorrect
2) Doesn't definately put you inside IR35
3) Not really

At this point you should ask your 3rd party for a determination, they will then ask up the chain and hopefully you will get clarity.

**northernladuk** · 6 February 2017, 17:22

Originally posted by Andy Hallett View Post

1) Incorrect
2) Doesn't definately put you inside IR35
3) Not really

At this point you should ask your 3rd party for a determination, they will then ask up the chain and hopefully you will get clarity.

This but OP please get a better grasp of IR35. You are in as much danger putting yourself inside as you are from the PS changes.

**NHS1979** · 6 February 2017, 18:51

Originally posted by DaveB View Post

The only way to avoid this is to not renew and go get a gig in the private sector, and make sure you tell the end client why.

Or get another gig with a different ps end client (if you don't care about the income drop or don't/can't work in private sector)

**newbieITContractor2015** · 7 February 2017, 02:14

So the overwhelming advice on here is to walk away from the public sector as a contractor and take a private sector job - unfortunately the reality is that well paying private sector jobs aren't falling off trees. In addition it's only a matter of time before the government implements the same changes in the private sector, at which point the advice will be give up contracting presumably?

**eek** · 7 February 2017, 04:51

Public sector renewal

Originally posted by newbieITContractor2015 View Post

So the overwhelming advice on here is to walk away from the public sector as a contractor and take a private sector job - unfortunately the reality is that well paying private sector jobs aren't falling off trees. In addition it's only a matter of time before the government implements the same changes in the private sector, at which point the advice will be give up contracting presumably?

No the advice here is that we strongly believe you know far less than you think you do when it comes to ir35.

After that our advice would be the standard one of make sure you are in a different contract after April so that hmrc can't come back in a year or so and so you know your contract was inside on April, well we think it was inside from day one, that's £x,000 you owe us.

And to avoid that risk you need to be in a different client via a different agency in April

**newbieITContractor2015** · 7 February 2017, 15:11

You're right I'm not a ir35 guru, hence my questions here.

Northern lad you mentioned something about me not taking advice and how I should have done things differently, please elaborate.

I have company insurance, a qdos checked website, multiple clients (although 1 main client), marketing, don't get employee benefits and I use a mixture of customer and company equipment - what am I supposed to be doing differently to be fully outside ir35?

I think I'll just weigh my options up mid March and cancel the contract if needed (the end customer in this case determines ir35 status)

Public sector renewal