What's changed - FAQ

[SueEllen]

So they are definitely covered by the new legislation?

I could tell you but I would have to kill you afterwards.

[northernladuk]

MI5 are public sector but there are good reasons which anyone with common sense can work out why they aren't subject to FOI.

I think the terminology is the key. They are exempt which means they are in the same PS area but the FOI can't be used for them and other security bodies. Which is different to saying FOI doesn't apply in the same way it doesn't apply to a private company..

That make sense? They are within scope being a PS but exempt so yes you would expect the legislation to apply... unless they are exempt from that as well but we've not hear otherwise.

https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organis...ion_23_foi.pdf

[Andy Hallett]

One unknown on if the client is caught is what happens to certain agencies of departments that are exempt - eg MI5 are exempt from FoI but are part of MoD who are not exempt. So if I contract for MI5, so the new rules apply?

They are undoubtedly public sector but not subject to the definition for IR35 purposes.

You'd be the worst spy in history!

Depends which organisation pays. If MI5 is a legal entity discrete from home office and not subject to FOI then the rules will not apply.

Same goes for GCHQ.

[malvolio]

Actually I suspect the real answer is that they are covered by FOI but will not be able to release any information to the public because of its sensitive nature.

I'm not betting the mortgage on the new rules not applying...

[Andy Hallett]

Actually I suspect the real answer is that they are covered by FOI but will not be able to release any information to the public because of its sensitive nature.

I'm not betting the mortgage on the new rules not applying...

"Yes Mr HMRC, we have made a determination, but we can't tell you"

[northernladuk]

Actually I suspect the real answer is that they are covered by FOI but will not be able to release any information to the public because of its sensitive nature.

I'm not betting the mortgage on the new rules not applying...

This is what I think and says more or less what I was trying to put in my post.

Section 23 (Security Bodies) mentions a link between MI5 and the Home Office.

https://ico.org.uk/media/1182/securi...ion_23_foi.pdf

Talks about exemptions and not having to confirm or deny it holds information etc.

I'm not 100% convinced the fact MI5 doesn't have to provide FOI means it's not outside the scope of the legislation.

[SueEllen]

Actually I suspect the real answer is that they are covered by FOI but will not be able to release any information to the public because of its sensitive nature.

I'm not betting the mortgage on the new rules not applying...

The ICO website says they have an "absolute exemption".

Lots of laws clearly have written in them that there is an exemption for reasons of national security. This tax change has no such exemption.

All the security services openly and clearly state they are governmental bodies and you can find out the relevant secretary of state/minister in charge of them. So if they are public sector bodies what else is?

[RonBW]

The ICO website says they have an "absolute exemption".

Lots of laws clearly have written in them that there is an exemption for reasons of national security. This tax change has no such exemption.

All the security services openly and clearly state they are governmental bodies and you can find out the relevant secretary of state/minister in charge of them. So if they are public sector bodies what else is?

National Crime Agency? Non-ministerial department, run by the government, not bound by FoI. So according to post 1 they don't have to apply the rules even though they are clearly public sector.

[teapot418]

National Crime Agency? Non-ministerial department, run by the government, not bound by FoI. So according to post 1 they don't have to apply the rules even though they are clearly public sector.

I think that's right - if they're not covered by the FOI act, then they don't have to apply the rules.

[eek]

National Crime Agency? Non-ministerial department, run by the government, not bound by FoI. So according to post 1 they don't have to apply the rules even though they are clearly public sector.

Let's be blunt here We don't know about the examples you keep hitting us with and I don't care whether they are impacted or not but you can see that no one here has a clue (and neither proboably do those departments)

If you work in such a department you may be impacted, you may be able to avoid. Personally I wouldn't be taking any risk and would be leaving..