Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[225c]

There are a number of bodies now classifying their contractors as Outside supposedly using to the HMRC tool. However putting a big caveat on the notification emails stating as the guidance and tool change all the time, the determination may change at any point as well.

I have a feeling once the dust has settled and the bodies have had time to review each area of their business properly, a lot of roles will be reclassified as inside. They just needed time to stop the mass walkouts.

[bobspud]

Our department had a bit of a wobble over the office holder question but in the end they took legal advice and nearly all of the contractors on site were outside as a result. It helped that we were able to explain to them why it was important that we did not get near the position of being classified as workers for tax purposes.

[jamesbrown]

I have a feeling once the dust has settled and the bodies have had time to review each area of their business properly, a lot of roles will be reclassified as inside. They just needed time to stop the mass walkouts.

Yeah, I think that's probably right, esp. when HMRC get through the stats and see that they haven't achieved anything like a 90% hit rate (I know ) and lobby HMG to increase the pressure on PSBs.

[northernladuk]

Yeah, I think that's probably right, esp. when HMRC get through the stats and see that they haven't achieved anything like a 90% hit rate (I know ) and lobby HMG to increase the pressure on PSBs.

I'd go with this as well. I can't believe for one minute staying with your client that has deemed you outside is the end of all this.

[Andy Hallett]

Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

It was reported today that Network Rail have declared every worker as Outside IR35. By all account this includes Litter Pickers and Hedgrerow Cutters!

I've not seen the communication, but I am closing the book on where the HMRC tanks will be pointing April 7th if true.

[jamesbrown]

It was reported today that Network Rail have declared every worker as Outside IR35. By all account this includes Litter Pickers and Hedgrerow Cutters!

I've not seen the communication, but I am closing the book on where the HMRC tanks will be pointing April 7th if true.

This will be interesting to watch. I think many of us expected blanket decisions, but they're much less sustainable with the reasonable care provision. Obviously, the PSBs will be under more pressure for this Network Rail (outside) scenario if true, and I can't see that standing for long, but they may eventually come under some pressure for blanket inside determinations too, as it really only requires one test case with the PSB paying back-taxes to the contractor, and not recovering them from HMRC, to blow a massive hole in that. There may also be a greater case for worker rights if a lack of reasonable care is demonstrated (speculating there, as I'm more familiar with tax law than employment law).

[northernladyuk]

This will be interesting to watch. I think many of us expected blanket decisions, but they're much less sustainable with the reasonable care provision. Obviously, the PSBs will be under more pressure for this Network Rail (outside) scenario if true, and I can't see that standing for long, but they may eventually come under some pressure for blanket inside determinations too, as it really only requires one test case with the PSB paying back-taxes to the contractor, and not recovering them from HMRC, to blow a massive hole in that. There may also be a greater case for worker rights if a lack of reasonable care is demonstrated (speculating there, as I'm more familiar with tax law than employment law).

An example must be made of a PSB.

[Hawkesbaynz]

Apologies if this has been covered in the last 177 pages...!

I am working as a Locum in a General Practice which may or may not be perceived as Public Sector Organisation. Certainly the permies terms are not in comparison with the NHS (one week sick/ owners are self employed GPs). Currently working there covering staff shortage but work in several GP Practices directly or through agencies. Some others say Outside IR35 but no convenient work at present. There is option of ongoing pleasant work and am booked up until end April. However they are wavering about the IR35 IN/Out. I need to know! Am sending the manager an email to chivvy them up. Is this correct...

'I have been informed by the other direct GP Practice I work for that I will be paid Outside IR35 as they perceive themselves as a Private Sector Business rather than Public Sector Organisation. Some agencies likewise. I have also performed the test on the HMRC website and identified that the Intermediaries Legislation does not apply to me.

As well as the significant tax implications of PAYE and NI of going Inside IR35 in April I may become a target for HMRC for previous tax as they would state that I should always have been Inside rather than working as a Limited Company. There will be a fine too! I may have no choice but not to return to the Practice in April.'

Appreciate views.

[LoughriggFell]

First of all I'm no expert, and there may be someone better placed then me to comment.
My understanding is
1) that the GP's are classed as under the FOI act, which is what is determining Public Sector.
2) covering vacancies that would be filled by permanent members of staff is highly likely to be inside IR35
3) the changes would affect not just your working in April, but carried out prior to April, but paid after the 6th (i.e. this week, if you invoice weekly)
4) The understanding and implementation of this has been incredibly bad and last minute in the NHS, and I think that the GP's maybe even slower.

The BMA published some guidance on their website which may help.

[teapot418]

First of all I'm no expert, and there may be someone better placed then me to comment.
My understanding is
1) that the GP's are classed as under the FOI act, which is what is determining Public Sector.
2) covering vacancies that would be filled by permanent members of staff is highly likely to be inside IR35
3) the changes would affect not just your working in April, but carried out prior to April, but paid after the 6th (i.e. this week, if you invoice weekly)
4) The understanding and implementation of this has been incredibly bad and last minute in the NHS, and I think that the GP's maybe even slower.

The BMA published some guidance on their website which may help.

Agreed - for purposes of the legislation, public sector is any organisation subject to FOI Act. An NHS GP is public sector.

Your client needs to make a determination. A suggestion would be to use the ESS tool yourself, present the answers to the client, and ask them to agree with your result - but they do need to make the decision and put that in writing.

As said previously, any payment after 6 April is affected, regardless of when the work was done.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-em...status-for-tax