Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[Michael at BI Accountancy]

Andy,

When do you guy's re-visit the preferred supplier list for accountants?

Would love to go through the tender process for this if possible.

[Andy Hallett]

Andy,

When do you guy's re-visit the preferred supplier list for accountants?

Would love to go through the tender process for this if possible.

Drop me a PM and I'll put you in touch with our Commercial Manager.

[psychocandy]

The exemptions are for, and I quote:

• workers who only provide their services to private sector organisations
• fully contracted - out services delivered in the public sector

Consultancies that operate in a similar way to agencies and supply workers to public sector authorities are treated like agencies, i.e. within scope. In other words, the consultancy must fully deliver a service. This could be a support contract, but if the consultancy provides bodies that assist in delivering a service that is managed by the PS, that's inside. One obvious hallmark would be whether other consultancies and agencies are also providing bodies to deliver the same/similar services, but the only way to be completely certain, as the date approaches, is to ask the client for a definitive answer.

But its not managed by the PS at all. Its all totally outsourced..

All the PS client does is moan when SLAs are not met. If they have an issue they speak to a service manager at the consultancy who then decides how best to deal with it.

[psychocandy]

And I know you are clutching at straws to justify staying where you are. But if in April you are inside ir35 what changed then were hmrc to ask about 2016/17?

Jus trying to find out whether its worth staying or not....

[psychocandy]

It is up to the Public Sector body to confirm whether IR35 deductions should be applied, if they don't after 31 days of an engagement starting, I believe it's their risk.

I assume therefore they should be looking at all of their consultancy and agency contractors accordingly.

But the end client wouldnt necessarily know who was a contractor. OK they could ask I guess its not a secret.

But look at from the point of view of the consultancy. They've decided maybe we'll have 5 permies and 2 contractors working on the X account. Because it suits us to do it that way.

PS client
X then says sorry you're contractors are inside we're reporting them as such. Contractors leave consultancy because of this. Consultancy is not going to be impressed that end client has stuck their oar in and knackered their plans..

[northernladuk]

Jus trying to find out whether its worth staying or not....

I'd say start a thread about it so we can help with your decision...

Start it off with something like... I'm inside already and I'm likely to be inside after April but that's irrelevant because I'm inside already.. Should I stay?

[jamesbrown]

But its not managed by the PS at all. Its all totally outsourced..

All the PS client does is moan when SLAs are not met. If they have an issue they speak to a service manager at the consultancy who then decides how best to deal with it.

In which case, you'll either need to wait for your client to confirm, or you'll need to take pre-emptive action. Your call, obviously, but don't be surprised if they leave it until the very last minute, in order to panic you into making a decision that you probably shouldn't (i.e. staying). Also, you'll excuse our skepticism, but I think much of this stems from what you post about the way you work more generally, which seems to be borderline w/r to IR35, at best. I appreciate that this is a separate issue from whether the new PS rules apply, but that's where some of the skepticism comes from, because the majority of consultancy arrangements that supply BoS roles will be within the rules. Of course, if your particular consultancy is delivering a support service that is full outsourced, as you describe (e.g. evidenced by you not working alongside other BoS contractors from different consultancies/agencies on a PS client site), that's a different matter. But the only way to be sure is to get confirmation from your client, which will probably come at the bitter end.

[LondonManc]

But the end client wouldnt necessarily know who was a contractor. OK they could ask I guess its not a secret.

But look at from the point of view of the consultancy. They've decided maybe we'll have 5 permies and 2 contractors working on the X account. Because it suits us to do it that way.

PS client
X then says sorry you're contractors are inside we're reporting them as such. Contractors leave consultancy because of this. Consultancy is not going to be impressed that end client has stuck their oar in and knackered their plans..

Consultancy should then charge more because the cost of them supplying the service will increase (to cover IR35 losses suffered by contractors).

I think I'll be looking into this model if the PS side of things take hold; even more important for the working away from home gigs.

[northernladuk]

In which case, you'll either need to wait for your client to confirm, or you'll need to take pre-emptive action. Your call, obviously, but don't be surprised if they leave it until the very last minute, in order to panic you into making a decision that you probably shouldn't (i.e. staying). Also, you'll excuse our skepticism, but I think much of this stems from what you post about the way you work more generally, which seems to be borderline w/r to IR35, at best. I appreciate that this is a separate issue from whether new the PS rules apply, but that's where some of the skepticism comes from, because the majority of consultancy arrangements that supply BoS roles will be within the rules. Of course, if your particular consultancy is delivering a support service that is full outsourced, as you describe (e.g. evidenced by you not working alongside other BoS contractors from different consultancies/agencies on a PS client site), that's a different matter. But the only way to be sure is to get confirmation from your client, which will probably come at the bitter end.

Oh dear god noooo. Not again......

[jamesbrown]

But the end client wouldnt necessarily know who was a contractor.

TBH, I find your posts incredibly confusing. A (hopefully) simple question for you: are you delivering tiered support for a PS client, sitting at the client site, and sitting alongside BoS contractors from other consultancies, agencies, and perm staff that are doing similar things?