Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[psychocandy]

The common letter I have started to receive (from NHS) organisations is one saying everyone is inside unless they say otherwise. Whilst this might sound blunt on first reading it's actually a perfectly sensible thing for them to do. As an organisation if they don't tell a third party to operate OPR then they become liable for the Tax and NI in the event the rules should have been applied.

Different from my (ex)client. The recruitment arm (agency) sent everyone an email saying that they'd spoken to the client (their internal client) and the end client PS and decided EVERYONE was outside. Im dubious I must admit.

Believe no-one I'd say...

[LondonManc]

The payer is liable, not the contractor, it's very clear.

Which means that there will be some agents in for a nasty surprise when you get their explicit confirmation that it's an outside IR35 gig. If the tool then says it's inside, it's going to be carnage.

[RonBW]

HMRC told me, in front of 20 other people, "they would stand behind the decision" of the tool.

HMRC told me in a room full of people that they did not intend for this to be rolled out to the private sector in the future.

[seeourbee]

And the Tories said they'd stop IR35. This achieves nothing

[eek]

Which means that there will be some agents in for a nasty surprise when you get their explicit confirmation that it's an outside IR35 gig. If the tool then says it's inside, it's going to be carnage.

The fun bit is where an agency states as part of the contract that the contract is outside IR35 (say as an explicit answer to a question in the email trail around the offer) without physical evidence to back it up from the end client.

I can't see this being the case for long but it will be for a while. so the question is what would you need in your contract paperwork to accept a public sector contract that claims to be outside IR35.

1) A clear explicit statement that the client confirms:-
a) that the department falls within the IR35 critera (i.e. the department is party to the Freedom of information act) and this contract / role has been deemed outside IR35.
b) the department (as a whole) iis not party to the Freedom of information act
2) A contract that doesn't give the agency the right to deduct or withhold partial payments from the contractor.

Anything else?

[teapot418]

The common letter I have started to receive (from NHS) organisations is one saying everyone is inside unless they say otherwise. Whilst this might sound blunt on first reading it's actually a perfectly sensible thing for them to do. As an organisation if they don't tell a third party to operate OPR then they become liable for the Tax and NI in the event the rules should have been applied.

Have you asked them for the reason for the determination?

[LondonManc]

The fun bit is where an agency states as part of the contract that the contract is outside IR35 (say as an explicit answer to a question in the email trail around the offer) without physical evidence to back it up from the end client.

I can't see this being the case for long but it will be for a while. so the question is what would you need in your contract paperwork to accept a public sector contract that claims to be outside IR35.

1) A clear explicit statement that the client confirms:-
a) that the department falls within the IR35 critera (i.e. the department is party to the Freedom of information act) and this contract / role has been deemed outside IR35.
b) the department (as a whole) iis not party to the Freedom of information act
2) A contract that doesn't give the agency the right to deduct or withhold partial payments from the contractor.

Anything else?

A copy of the determination result for the role would be good.

[RonBW]

A copy of the determination result for the role would be good.

Why? If the agent is happy to put it in the contract that the role has been determined to be within scope and outside IR35 then they are recording that for you - they are now liable if the result is wrong.

It's only helpful if they are saying you are inside IR35 and you want to take that decision to appeal.

[LondonManc]

Why? If the agent is happy to put it in the contract that the role has been determined to be within scope and outside IR35 then they are recording that for you - they are now liable if the result is wrong.

It's only helpful if they are saying you are inside IR35 and you want to take that decision to appeal.

From a retrograb point of view - if you've been in the role and it's outside and they confirm it's outside, you've in effect ringfenced your previous income from a tax grab, no matter what the future brings.

[seeourbee]

Ooh, I've just heard some very interesting news ... good news actually about this whole debacle. Can't say yet but it may break soon ..