Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[jamesbrown]

I'd assumed they would go back over previous assignments with different clients and agencies for the full 2.5 years?

In the event of an investigation, they'll probably want to see all your recent contracts. However, I think there's an important distinction between:

1. A live contract that was previously declared outside IR35 and subsequently (post April) declared by the client to be inside, without a change in working practices; and
2. A past contract that was declared to be outside IR35.

Ultimately, it's the reality of the working practices that determine your IR35 status, but I think the former scenario is the one that worries people most. Continuing in a contract that has undergone a change in declared status without a change in working practices arguably puts you (your legal team) in a very difficult position to defend that contract (at the very least, the client is not onside).

[eek]

They can do that anyway, whether or not you're with a different agency or client. They need to investigate each engagement separately. Make sure you keep your tax investigation insurance up to date - they can go back six years.

True but I will repeat again that that is not what I'm worried about. Come April there will be an easily identifiable list of contractors who have been deemed by their client to be inside ir35. Now it may just be me but I think any contractor on that list is going to have a very hard time arguing that the contract was not always inside.

I also suspect that when that list kicks off being investigated no other cases will be started until the scheme is repeated in the private sector. Which I suspect will be in April 2019.

[NHS1979]

I think I am outside now, in the role I started in Jan, but I am not 100% confident so would rather be cautious. I suspect the NHS will want to move me to their payroll on a new contract within ir35. It's possible they might allow agency payroll or umbrella.

I could ask my client to craft a different job for me where I worked on the same things in a more obviously ringfenced way, but if it really is as simple as 'just get away from wherever you are now as it's risky to hang around' then I guess I'll have to go. They will be gutted but don't see I have any option. Loss of income is less threatening than retro tax grab

[northernladuk]

Why will you be gutted? You a contractor now. Gigs end and new gigs start. It was going to end at some point. It's what we do.

[NHS1979]

Why will you be gutted? You a contractor now. Gigs end and new gigs start. It was going to end at some point. It's what we do.

I said THEY would be gutted, i.e. the NHS organisation that got me in. The piece of work I was brought in to do in Jan will take until about October to finish, and although they know about IR35 they don't really understand it and are trying to see what it will take to make me stay beyond March. Switching to their payroll, switching to agency payroll, using an umbrella company, redesigning my role so it is even more explicitly a ringfenced piece of work with deliverables.

But I am listening to you all, and reading around, and am yet to see anything that suggests staying April-Oct is a wise move. None of the options I've mentioned above seems to make any difference re the retrospective stuff. It does sound as though the only prudent course would be to see my current contract through till 5th April, then leave and find another gig elsewhere at a different NHS org doing something else. No doubt that gig and all future NHS gigs would be inside IR35, but at least the retrospective threat will be less than carrying on where I am.

It will be sad though as I work to see a job through and do it well. 3 months in is a bit crap, and they do love me, but hey I agree the contractor's life means business comes first.

[MrStu]

It does sound as though the only prudent course would be to see my current contract through till 5th April, then leave and find another gig elsewhere

No, you don't want to be in receipt of any invoices which are paid after 6th April.

[SueEllen]

True but I will repeat again that that is not what I'm worried about. Come April there will be an easily identifiable list of contractors who have been deemed by their client to be inside ir35. Now it may just be me but I think any contractor on that list is going to have a very hard time arguing that the contract was not always inside.

I also suspect that when that list kicks off being investigated no other cases will be started until the scheme is repeated in the private sector. Which I suspect will be in April 2019.

In regards to the private sector they will start using public sector contractors as examples to scare end clients, agents and contractors.

However having contracted a few time for the public sector and many times for various sized private sector clients plus contracting abroad , I know how the private sector including large blue chip companies can work out ways not to fall into the same trap as the public sector.

[teapot418]

True but I will repeat again that that is not what I'm worried about. Come April there will be an easily identifiable list of contractors who have been deemed by their client to be inside ir35. Now it may just be me but I think any contractor on that list is going to have a very hard time arguing that the contract was not always inside.

I also suspect that when that list kicks off being investigated no other cases will be started until the scheme is repeated in the private sector. Which I suspect will be in April 2019.

The question was about previous contracts. The OP's current contract is new, so tax liability would be relatively limited if caught.

[eek]

The question was about previous contracts. The OP's current contract is new, so tax liability would be relatively limited if caught.

That may be the case, your answer did nothing to answer that actual question and everything to be a QDOS / IPSE sales pitch.

[teapot418]

That may be the case, your answer did nothing to answer that actual question and everything to be a QDOS / IPSE sales pitch.

Not sure what your problem is here.

Are you on weekly payments? Your payment needs to be before 6 April to avoid the need to be assessed. It really is your decision - as you've only been there a couple of months, your financial risk if there's an investigation and you're found to have been "inside" is relatively low - you could just set aside the extra money for peace of mind.

Yes I'm on weekly payments and have sorted accelerate payments so paid within 7 days. Limited exposure on the 3 month contract, but I'd assumed they would go back over previous assignments with different clients and agencies for the full 2.5 years?

They can do that anyway, whether or not you're with a different agency or client. They need to investigate each engagement separately. Make sure you keep your tax investigation insurance up to date - they can go back six years.