Staying in the same public sector contract after April 2017

[eek]

Regarding the abuse of the rules in the public sector - if people are being employed off the pay roll who really should be employees then change the rules. Don't penalise everybody for some perceived abuse of the system by a small minority.

And that is exactly what they are doing - the thing is I don't think its a small minority....

[BoredBloke]

I agree in a way with you.

I don't think HMRC's IR35 prosecution stats will improve dramatically, but two things will happen

1, the amount of tax they receive will increase as people/organisations work under ir35 rules
2, the stress caused by an investigation (even if you are most likely going to win your case) will be the incentive to keep under the radar.

only the foolhardy will want to become a name of their hit list

Regarding the stress side of things, your are looking at it the wrong way around. At the moment, when HMRC investigate your IR35 position you stand to be hit with a crippling bill for back taxes. However going forward that tax has already been removed. If you win you stand to get it back.

[eek]

Regarding the stress side of things, your are looking at it the wrong way around. At the moment, when HMRC investigate your IR35 position you stand to be hit with a crippling bill for back taxes. However going forward that tax has already been removed. If you win you stand to get it back.

How and from whom would you get the tax back? You may want to look into that in more detail...

[cojak]

Read the legislation and come back and see me.. I'm pretty sure there is no mention of limited company in the legislation (definitely not PSCs which is a HMRC new age term)

It was intended to protect the employees - not attack them!

But is ISN'T attacking the employees- it's 'attacking' contractors.

If the contractors became employees they'd be protected too.

[Semtex]

Regarding the stress side of things, your are looking at it the wrong way around. At the moment, when HMRC investigate your IR35 position you stand to be hit with a crippling bill for back taxes. However going forward that tax has already been removed. If you win you stand to get it back.

couldnt give two hoots about tax paid if inside ir35.

IT IS THE RETROSPECTIVE ELEMENT!! that would frighten most people

[cojak]

A further problem is many of these contractors that try and argue they are outside probably don't know enough about IR35 to argue it. If they did most of them wouldn't have been there for decades. It's a big ask for many to pull their heads out of their arses to address this, let alone suddenly understand IR35 to a level they are comfortable arguing it. Most that will say 'outside' won't have a clue what outside really is. It will only take a couple of idiots trying and failing before they stop listening and yet again those that really do know will suffer the fall out of the eejits.

I've been refusing NHS contracts since 2010.

It's been obvious from them that this was eventually going to happen, just as it's likely that this will spill into the private sector 2019/2020...

[BoredBloke]

couldnt give two hoots about tax paid if inside ir35.

IT IS THE RETROSPECTIVE ELEMENT!! that would frighten most people

But that's the point. If your current contract is deemed to be outside and you go past April. If the client then deems it to be inside and nothing has changed (contract & working practices), then if tested, the chances are that you would still be outside. To get the retrospective part they would still have to prove that previous contracts were inside. They can't simply say HMRC says its inside because HMRC said a lot of others were inside and there proved not to be the case.

[LondonManc]

I've been refusing NHS contracts since 2010.

It's been obvious from them that this was eventually going to happen, just as it's likely that this will spill into the private sector 2019/2020...

A lot of that will depend how it goes in the PS.

I can imagine there being quite a revamp to it, as well as inducements to get companies taking perms/FTCs on to get more of the bum-on-seaters going via umbrella or FTCs.

My plan B will be starting in a few weeks, really looking forward to having it grow in the background and switching to it if what you say is likely to happen actually does.

[pictavia]

But that's the point. If your current contract is deemed to be outside and you go past April. If the client then deems it to be inside and nothing has changed (contract & working practices), then if tested, the chances are that you would still be outside. To get the retrospective part they would still have to prove that previous contracts were inside. They can't simply say HMRC says its inside because HMRC said a lot of others were inside and there proved not to be the case.

Yes, but why take the risk? Sure, there are some who can't afford to be out of work, but employment status is a subjective and complicated issue - there is absolutely no way to guarantee a fair outcome from a tax investigation.

[SussexSeagull]

Never worked in the public sector but contractors being inside IR35, while varying from client to client, is more than a small problem.

As for contractors who are at a place for years on end, the client really should have found a permanent replacement years ago but public and private sector clients are allergic to increasing permanent headcount.

It is a situation that has been allowed to develop over the years and is going home to roost.