HMRC enquiries for Schemes through ASMG / White Collar

[bluemonkey71]

Got a letter back this morning confirming receipt of the suspension.
They have argued in the letter they can't be prevented from using discovery and also that it was taxable income.

They will consider why section 29 can't be applied to and also evidence to show that this income wasn't taxable.

Not sure what happens next.

[scriptmonkey]

Need a standardised appeal letter for Discovery Assessment

Can anyone point me in the direction of an appeal letter template or anyone representing Kirium Employment Solutions users for the appeal of the Discovery Assessment for 2008/09.

Any information greatly appreciated.

[Mickeynz]

Calling all people using ASMG / WhiteCollar

Hi there,

I have gone and seen a tax lawyer last week and they opened my eyes up to a few valid points:

1. Get as many people using your tax efficiency scheme together as possible now - 80 to 90 people would be recommended because:

a. They are 99.9% sure people will have to pay - cases ARE being lost against HRMC hand over fist in the courts at the moment. Wasn't the Rangers case was won on a technicality - the Rangers players weren't actually named beneficiaries of the trust, their family were?

b. You don't want to go to court - I was told I would most likely loose. Tax court cases are 1 - 2 weeks and cost an average of £250k. Do you have those kind of finances?

c. You don't want to be a low hanging fruit - individuals who are easy to pick off.
Get a group of people together - 80 to 90 who have the resources, paying £1,500 rather than £250,000 and the right representation so that it gives HMRC pause - to go after easier pickings. You will still have to pay but HMRC may defer dealing with you later and give you a bit of breathing space. I don't know about you but I certainly don't have the money sitting around that they are currently asking for.

b. Timeframe: HMRC are currently prosecuting the 2003 tax year - best case scenario is four years before they take you to court, worse case 2 years and most likely case 3 years.

c. How much you pay. A larger group might be able to settle the tax bill at a slightly decreased rate.

d. Is your provider telling you not to respond to HMRC?, do you realise that you may incur a penalty fee up to 100% of your tax & interest bill if you aren't seen as co-operating. What you say or do to co-operate is something you should talk to a lawyer about.

e. If its taking three years for your case to be heard at trial, do you think your provider (or the company who is saying they are completely separate to your original provider but are saying they will stick by you?!?!?) will still be around or will have closed shop. Where are they getting the money to front one, two, three...... £250,000 court bills from? did they know the tax efficiency scheme they were promoting was dodgy and had these spare funds sitting around for this day to come? are they going to up and close shop leaving you completely stranded having not prepared any defence for yourself because you thought they were going to take care of you?

f. What kind of proof do you have about how your tax efficiency scheme was set up. Org structure of the companies involved, how they inter-operated - the renumeration setup and where they said you were in the scheme and how to prove you were setup how they said you were setup. All this kind of information is required for anyone to represent you in court.

The tax department can serve a section 36 on any company that they want to get more information about you on, your bank, employer, provider - the tax investigation departments are specialists and will find out everything.

I will be seeking a second opinion on the lawyer I went to see but right now my main objective is to get as many people together as possible - why not hedge your bets even if you don't believe this is the right solution, Lets get everyone together so we can share info and decide on the next action.

This is not about going after the promoter/provider of the scheme. This is about being in the best possible position to defend yourself come judgement day - I implore all of you to get each others contact details now rather than wait till its too late and you have no information and no way to defend yourselves.

[CDJ]

Hi there,

I have gone and seen a tax lawyer last week and they opened my eyes up to a few valid points:

1. Get as many people using your tax efficiency scheme together as possible now - 80 to 90 people would be recommended because...

Hi Mickey - Thanks for the post.. I also think it is important that we set-up a group so that we can work with HMRC collectively and also provide a forum that we can share experiences and support each other. I imagine that we are all in a similar situation, so it makes sense to look for a collective representation (noting that HMRC may look to bind us to the decision of a test case rather than as individuals) should this proceed to tribunal and as you say there is a safety in numbers and certainly better representation will have a massive impact.

If you look at the first post on the Cascade thread by Costo - I think this provides a sound example of how we should proceed, particularly with the idea of a private group (I would certainly join, although i don't really know how to go about setting something like this up).

I believe it is too soon to start thinking about starting a legal fees war-chest (so to speak). But we should certainly have the ground laid should the need eventuate.

You've raised a few salient points here from your chat with the legal respresentative and whilst I think it is very much a case of plan for the worst, but hope for the best, it is also too soon to draw any measured conclusions until HMRC have provided a formal response to the appeal, expressing their technical reasoning behind the decision (which I understand they are legally obliged to do). This is the point (for me atleast) when I think legal advice will be most helpful.

[Under the Cosh]

PM Rights

Hi Mods could I have PM rights to PM Turnover

With thanks

[rustyspanner]

PM Rights too

Hi Mods could I have PM rights to PM Turnover too please?

With thanks

<admin note - PM rights granted />

[martin0973]

PM Rights

Hi Mods, please could I ahve PM rights? Thanks in advance.

[sabretooth1975]

PM rights please

Hi Mods, please could I have PM rights? Thanks in advance.

[Daylami]

Under the DOTAS rules, I was under the impression that all avoidance schemes had to be disclosed to HMRC and referenced to on our tax returns.

However, looking over my old tax returns, I can't see the scheme reference number highlighted anywhere. Where on the tax return should this scheme reference number be?

[volirium01]

So what now?

Under the DOTAS rules, I was under the impression that all avoidance schemes had to be disclosed to HMRC and referenced to on our tax returns.

However, looking over my old tax returns, I can't see the scheme reference number highlighted anywhere. Where on the tax return should this scheme reference number be?

Hi, just new on here having just received a Late Payment Surcharge Notice from HMRC for 2008/09 in relation to 'unpaid tax'. This is the first letter I have received indicating any potential 'issues' for that tax year. Nothing else has been received, although as I live in Oz mail could have gone AWOL on its way over here. I was with White Collar for just under 3 years. So what next? Looks like White Collar Financial is now dissolved but also seems people are still talking to them? And the big question is - what will be in the post for the subsequent tax years as the 4 year deadline for them approaches?? I take it they are working their way forward year-on-year to meet with the required timescales?