HMRC enquiries for EBT schemes through SANZAR

[malvolio]

I also agree 100% that a representative case for a scheme and if lost no one else in that scheme should be allowed to hold on to disputed tax. Just look at Boyle, Aberdeen Asset Management and Rangers cases - all are completely different to each other. My issue is HMRC getting to decide which case to apply to which schemes. HMRC are tax collectors but with this legislation will have judicial powers as well. Many other things wrong with this legislation including retrospective nature.

Lots of things are wrong with this legislation apart from it not having a retrospective nature. If you are going to fight it, rather than just bitch about it on the interweb, you really ought to try and understand the target. Dylan's and jbryce's earlier posts are a very good summary.

[varunksingh]

I give up. Cannot understand how this is not retrospective. A guy in 2005 was NOT TOLD that 10 years from now it would mean pay yr disputed tax in 90 days. If HMRC is out of time does not matter, if HMRC has not taken the scheme to court doesn't matter. Any one who declared DOTAS or was on list of DOTAS scheme users since DOTAS started, will be forced to pay disputed tax in 90 days. This was never mentioned under DOTAS. They are changing law and this should not apply to older cases.

May be instead of just saying it is not retrospective, if u can explain why, it might help!

[jbryce]

I give up. Cannot understand how this is not retrospective. A guy in 2005 was NOT TOLD that 10 years from now it would mean pay yr disputed tax in 90 days. If HMRC is out of time does not matter, if HMRC has not taken the scheme to court doesn't matter. Any one who declared DOTAS or was on list of DOTAS scheme users since DOTAS started, will be forced to pay disputed tax in 90 days. This was never mentioned under DOTAS. They are changing law and this should not apply to older cases.

May be instead of just saying it is not retrospective, if u can explain why, it might help!

I don't think the law states that every scheme since DOTAS began will be impacted. Those schemes for which enquiries with individuals are open or for which enquiries could be opened (i.e. within the last four years) would be impacted. If you made full disclosure prior to four years then investigations prior to that period would be difficult, and anyway the last four years would provide enough low hanging fruit to keep HMRC happy.

Going forward, if you are with a DOTAS scheme you may well be impacted, and would be wise to get out asap.

[malvolio]

I give up. Cannot understand how this is not retrospective. A guy in 2005 was NOT TOLD that 10 years from now it would mean pay yr disputed tax in 90 days. If HMRC is out of time does not matter, if HMRC has not taken the scheme to court doesn't matter. Any one who declared DOTAS or was on list of DOTAS scheme users since DOTAS started, will be forced to pay disputed tax in 90 days. This was never mentioned under DOTAS. They are changing law and this should not apply to older cases.

May be instead of just saying it is not retrospective, if u can explain why, it might help!

Actually I don't really care either way. But since you ask, having a DOTAS number does not mean that HMRC accept the scheme was either effective or lawful and the laws on taxation haven't changed, you may have simply mis-applied them and so paid an incorrect amount. Or you may not have done. Who knows... But a correction is not a retrospective change, it is a correction. If it was likely to work to your advantage, would you still be crying about retrospection?

Like I said, understand the basics.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

I don't think the law states that every scheme since DOTAS began will be impacted. Those schemes for which enquiries with individuals are open or for which enquiries could be opened (i.e. within the last four years) would be impacted. If you made full disclosure prior to four years then investigations prior to that period would be difficult, and anyway the last four years would provide enough low hanging fruit to keep HMRC happy.

Going forward, if you are with a DOTAS scheme you may well be impacted, and would be wise to get out asap.

Since DOTAS came in 10 years ago, it has been pretty much automatic that HMRC open an enquiry where there is an SRN on the tax return.

This probably explains why they've got 65,000 open cases.

[jbryce]

20 years!

Since DOTAS came in 10 years ago, it has been pretty much automatic that HMRC open an enquiry where there is an SRN on the tax return.

This probably explains why they've got 65,000 open cases.

....that's a point. For those schemes that do fail, will HMRC be able to go back more than the four year current Discovery Assessment limit? I guess it could be argued that the loss of tax could be viewed as 'deliberate behaviour' and thus trigger the 20 year rule.
Were people using these schemes that long ago?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

....that's a point. For those schemes that do fail, will HMRC be able to go back more than the four year current Discovery Assessment limit? I guess it could be argued that the loss of tax could be viewed as 'deliberate behaviour' and thus trigger the 20 year rule.
Were people using these schemes that long ago?

I know for a fact that the following has been happening on a wide scale.

Eg. tax year 2004/5

1) Person files their self-assessment return in January 2006, including a DOTAS SRN in the box on the form.
2) Several months later HMRC opens an enquiry stating that they intend to look into the scheme.
3) HMRC does little or no further investigation but leaves the enquiry open, languishing for years.

If HMRC get the DOTAS proposal then they will be able to issue payment notices to all such persons. They don't need discovery.

I suspect that would be the bulk of the 65,000 open cases.

Do you see how BIG this is?

[SA2014]

Sanzar

I was using Sanzar solution in 2010& 2011. I have received a letter from HMRC regarding tax assessment for that period. I have to responed by end Feb. Could I request you if you know any contact from Sanzar, please provide me to discuss this.

[MrO666]

I was using Sanzar solution in 2010& 2011. I have received a letter from HMRC regarding tax assessment for that period. I have to responed by end Feb. Could I request you if you know any contact from Sanzar, please provide me to discuss this.

I'm afraid there are no contacts from Sanzar anymore, they've all vanished.

You're first point of call will probably be Contractor Helpdesk, they should be able to guide you in the first instance.

One thing to be sure of though, is whether the figures on the Discovery Assessment are correct ? Is the amount which HMRC are saying you took in loans accurate ?

Also, which tax year is the assessment for 09-10 or 10-11 (or both) ?

[eek]

I was using Sanzar solution in 2010& 2011. I have received a letter from HMRC regarding tax assessment for that period. I have to responed by end Feb. Could I request you if you know any contact from Sanzar, please provide me to discuss this.

You may want to read the top post here http://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc-...ings-news.html I will warn you it's not great news