HMRC Enquiry letters on Loans from EBT and other schemes

[a Man of Constant Sorrow]

Many thanks - I have written to Advantage Accounts to clarify their support and extent of; on receipt of response will share with others enquring the same

[KnightRider]

If it's any comfort, according to the recent NAO report, you are one of 20,000 people who used EBT or loan schemes.

http://www.nao.org.uk//idoc.ashx?doc...4d1&version=-1

I think it is HMRC who have the big problem, not you as individuals!!!

DonkeyRhubarb, The document in your link worries me. It says
"86 per cent
HMRC success rate at court in avoidance cases in 2011-12"

That seems very high rate. But the question is are they all similar cases like these.

[sal626]

DonkeyRhubarb, The document in your link worries me. It says
"86 per cent
HMRC success rate at court in avoidance cases in 2011-12"

That seems very high rate. But the question is are they all similar cases like these.

Yes, but what they don't tell you is that does 86% represent 30, 300 or 3000 cases?
I suspect it is towards the lower end of the scale.

Also, if we specifically look at EBT loan cases, there are three cases where HMRC lost on the point that loans from EBTs are income and can be taxed. These are dextra, Sempra and Rangers. Rangers, HMRC are appealing.

The case HMRC quote as their win with regards to EBTs, is PA holdings....but there the EBT was used to pay a bonus, not make a loan. So not exactly the same as the loan EBTs. And I believe PA holdings are appealing it anyway....

[meanttobeworking]

Edge/Norla

I received a letter regarding Edge for 10/11, asking for details of all payments made in the form of loans. I sent details back about a month ago, but have not received anything further. Did those of you receiving assessments and requests to pay go through this process initially, or is the assessment the first you heard of it?

And do the requests for tax payments relate to EBT payments before or after Dec 2010, or both? I left the scheme in December 2010 and didn't receive any EBT payments after the HMRC announcement.

[contractor1985]

Hi,

I used TRM/Payschemeplus for a short period in early 2008.

I have not received a letter but assume it will make its way to me soon enough

Where people have demands for money, what sort of numbers are you looking at?

Are they asking for the full amount of the loan? A percentage to represent the tax which would have been due had it been salary? Or one of the above with interest/penalties attached on top?

I have spoken to a friend who also used the scheme, albeit for a much longer time.

He said the amount requested in his case did not represent the loans made or any meaningful percentage. He is under the impression they do not have the full information and are almost guessing how much money people should be liable for.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

DonkeyRhubarb, The document in your link worries me. It says
"86 per cent
HMRC success rate at court in avoidance cases in 2011-12"

That seems very high rate. But the question is are they all similar cases like these.

They only take cases to court which have a good chance of success, so 86% is a totally misleading statistic.

This is why they didn't take us BN66ers to court. They know they would have lost.

[indigo01]

EDGE

I received a letter regarding Edge for 10/11, asking for details of all payments made in the form of loans. I sent details back about a month ago, but have not received anything further. Did those of you receiving assessments and requests to pay go through this process initially, or is the assessment the first you heard of it?

And do the requests for tax payments relate to EBT payments before or after Dec 2010, or both? I left the scheme in December 2010 and didn't receive any EBT payments after the HMRC announcement.

Meantobeworking - Can I please ask if you responded to HMRC using the guidelines/letter that EDGE provided?
Thanks.

[dannyc09]

Looks like I'm joining the party!

I used TRM/cherrylon during 08/09 and have been invited wig up for self assessment. I called and they said it was because I was involved in an EBT loan scheme. Funnily enough they told me to appeal themselves when they write to me next!

I find it a joke. Fair enough close loop holes but you can't turn round and start applying it retrospectively!

[shevlane]

An update from today's investigations...

Hi all,

A reminder from my previous post that I am in the same camp as bluerover (& many others) :- Talent Resource Management (now Raingold) for tax year 2008/09. However, I think this same set of companies owns Norla, Sanzar, etc.

An update from my side...

Today I also called Raingold, who also referred me to Tax Talk UK. I spoke the principal consultant there, Mark Boardman, who was quick to point out that they are a separate company from Raingold and that I would have to engage them personally (i.e. pay them on a per hour basis). I did explain that a whole bunch of us have received identically worded letters from HMRC on the same date, and he did say that if there are a number of us with effectively identical cases, that he would be open the idea of us pooling our resources and defending this properly. He is an ex-tax inspector who is now a tax advisor, although not a tax lawyer (if it were to go to court).

The process he described was that the initial step is to write the letter saying that you disagree. Then they will typically write back asking for more information. You will then write back with evidence relating to your employment and of the loan. And then it goes back and forward until you reach an agreement, they give up, or you go to court. He agreed to provide me a template for the initial letter for free.

A side note to this, I have noticed on the Tax Talk UK website, that although they say they are a different company from Raingold, that they share the same address. I'm really not sure what the arrangement is here, but I am interested to know Cobham Murphy offer to help you for free? Or is that the initial letter only, and then you have to pay?

Has anyone else had an different advice / experience today?

[Vthomson]

Trm loan hmrc letter

I have on Friday received a similar letter based on 2008/2009 tax year. I was through Talent Resource Management (Also known as Payscheme Plus, Cherrylon & Redding Capital Finance).

There is no trace of this company and have found out they wound up voluntarily in 2010. So I am left either fighting it (and not knowing how without support from the company I used) or paying it the bill? It interesting the wording used in the letter saying the payments received as loans but they believe they relate to professional work and so are taxable. Doesn't sound like they are convinced what they are asking for...

I know it could come back and bite me and am a wiser person now and thankfully I only used it for a year and moved to a limited company, but something niggles me how its worded its almost like it is trying to scare me into paying rather than contesting it.

Anyone else through Talent Resource at this time and had one of these letters?

Hi I also got same letter from hmrc yesterday and was with trm for 2098 2009

Let e know what are you planing to since we have only 30 days to reply back to hmrc