HMRC Enquiry letters on Loans from EBT and other schemes

[contractor1985]

Interesting point Bluerover - if you appeal you by default declare the full loan amount, which HMRC may not be aware off.

i think this is where a tax advisor is required.

However, lets say you didn't appeal, paid a smaller amount then you think you may potentially "owe", I'm guessing there is nothing stopping HMRC coming for the rest when they have new information.

A general question, did everyone who has a letter do a self assessment in the years being debated? Or are letters arriving regardless?

[DonkeyRhubarb]

I called and they said it was because I was involved in an EBT loan scheme. Funnily enough they told me to appeal themselves when they write to me next!

The person in HMRC you spoke to obviously wasn't with the "programme". They want people to capitulate, not appeal.

The No.1 priority for anyone who receives an assessment, with the 30-day deadline, is to get your appeal in on time.

[DonkeyRhubarb]

However, lets say you didn't appeal, paid a smaller amount then you think you may potentially "owe", I'm guessing there is nothing stopping HMRC coming for the rest when they have new information.

Correct. The figure is just an interim estimate. It does not bind HMRC to only collecting this amount.

Do not assume this is all you will have to pay.

[KnightRider]

Correct. The figure is just an interim estimate. It does not bind HMRC to only collecting this amount.

Do not assume this is all you will have to pay.

Please can you shed some light on this.

1. Are EBT letters new thing from HM? Heven't they sent these type of letters before.
2. Why 8/9 why not years before? Are they limited to certain years.

If we are paying I think we should find a good company to represent us rather than what TRM suggest. If we stay together we have a better chance and probably get the cost down in the long run as well.
If this has heppened before there might be good consultants / company out there who got experience dealing with this situation.

[bluerover]

Based on the information from shevlane I have left a VM with Mark Boardman asking about the free template letter.

As DonkeyRhubarb pointed out a uniform letter can only help and show we are united and have advice/spoken to a tax advisor.

Although as people have said Raingold represent TRM I am sure the letter will be a well worded letter that anyone who has received these HMRC Notice of Assessment letters can use in a replied appeal to the HMRC regardless of the loan arrangement company they have used. This may not be the case but it seems likely...

Referring to DonkeyRhubarb again, I agree I think it is in our best interest for as many of us use this as possible as it makes each appeal stronger if we are all using the same words.

I will update when I hear back from TaxTalkUK with regard this template letter.

[contractor1985]

I agree with forming a group, surely provides the best odds going forward.

I remember a similar topic springing up around 2009/2010 where a group contacted Gilberts? Would be good to hear from them where they got to, what the outcome was.

I am assuming earlier years have been missed as the 5 year deadline to challenge self assessments has passed for those? (I could be making this up).

If yo didn't submit a self assessment in those years, would you still get a letter??

[Skyblue]

I agree with forming a group, surely provides the best odds going forward.

I remember a similar topic springing up around 2009/2010 where a group contacted Gilberts? Would be good to hear from them where they got to, what the outcome was.

I am assuming earlier years have been missed as the 5 year deadline to challenge self assessments has passed for those? (I could be making this up).

If yo didn't submit a self assessment in those years, would you still get a letter??

I believe it doesn't stop them gong back further...........bit crap I know.

[meanttobeworking]

Edge/Norla

Today I received a letter in response to my letter to HMRC detailing my payments from Edge for the 2010/11 tax year. It simply states:


---
Thank you for your letter dated xxxxx and the information provided. I shall review this information and will write to you further when I have had the opportunity to consider all the circumstances of the arrangements used during the year. In the meantime, please feel free to contact me.....
---


To anyone that has received a calculation of tax owed, etc, did you receive this letter first? Or have we got two different things going on here?

[dannyc09]

The person in HMRC you spoke to obviously wasn't with the "programme". They want people to capitulate, not appeal.

The No.1 priority for anyone who receives an assessment, with the 30-day deadline, is to get your appeal in on time.

I've not received an assessment yet, just been asked to sign up for self assessment.

[Emigre]

I agree with forming a group, surely provides the best odds going forward.

I remember a similar topic springing up around 2009/2010 where a group contacted Gilberts? Would be good to hear from them where they got to, what the outcome was.

I am assuming earlier years have been missed as the 5 year deadline to challenge self assessments has passed for those? (I could be making this up).

If yo didn't submit a self assessment in those years, would you still get a letter??

This and the other related thread are a group. If you want to take it further than that I suggest that you read up on the S58 threads and the NTRT thread and how that came into existence.

There is a difference here. The S58 thread came into being as a direct result of unannounced retrospective tax laws going back to 1987. Whilst there has been some legislation to date in the loans arena it has certainly not had the broad impact that S58 had.

However, prevention is better than cure. There are a number of actions that could and perhaps should be taken.

1. Assemble the facts. What facts? Firstly, you need to determine the basis on which HMRC are proposing to assess you. The issue here is that as DR said there are 75+ variants.

2. Identify a defense. Preferrably identify more than one. Do your circumstances fit those of one of the recently decided cases? Do not underestimate the time or the effort involved in completing points 1 and 2. We have been fighting S58 for very nearly 5 years and we are still discovering fresh information that can help our case. The Steering Group of NTRT have exchanged over 20,000 emails and spent far more hours trawling through Hansard and the like to determne what the intent of Parliament was, identifying legal cases to help us, and so on. Lawyers do not do that unless you want to bankrupt yourself - you need to feed them with lines to develop.

3. Who can help? What is the exact status of each of the promoters? Are they in fact just introducers or did they design the scheme? Obtain copies of as many legal opinions obtained by the promoters as you can. Are these promoters prepared to fight HMRC to the four corners of the earth? You need at least one that has stated they will. They have information that you do not have. Work with them not against them regardless of what you may feel about them.

4. Next steps. What are you going to do with all the information? In light of hindsight regarding S58 there is no doubt that challenging HMRC ahead of them applying some questionable retro legislation will be a much stronger position - you get to Court, if it goes that far, on the basis of legislation as it was at the time you made the decision to get involved. If there are proceedings initiated you have a right to a carve out of any evil retro.

5. Funding. At some point you are likely to require some funding for professional advice and lawyers etc. Where will that come from? However, it is far more important to get all the information compiled first to enable you to properly assess the strength of your case, or better still, the weaknesses in HMRC's claims.

I entered into a loan arrangement after S58 closed the DTA relief claims and am comfortable with my legal position. I am far less comfortable with the deceitful way in which HMRC manipulate Government ministers and the spin that goes with it.

Far more than I intended to write so my apologies. A group is a good idea but it requires time and commitment and resource. I have another battle for now but will keep up to date on this blog and contribute when i can.