HMRC Enquiry letters on Loans from EBT and other schemes

[DonkeyRhubarb]

The process he described was that the initial step is to write the letter saying that you disagree. Then they will typically write back asking for more information. You will then write back with evidence relating to your employment and of the loan. And then it goes back and forward until you reach an agreement, they give up, or you go to court. He agreed to provide me a template for the initial letter for free.

It will be a slow old process. Each time you write to HMRC it could take weeks/months before they come back with anything.

They may lose interest once they realise you're not going to cave in.

[Old Kent Road]

Sanzar

Hello Penguin and others.

Another nooby joins the fray. Suprised this thread hasn't exploded a bit more with the number of letters I expect HMRC has issued out.

I got the HMRC re-assessment letter last week for the Sanzar 2008/09 scheme. Expect I will follow the Contractor Helpdesk / Cobham Murphy route to appeal.

Anybody know who is behind Contractor Helpdesk ? I'm assuming a generic mailbox operated by Cobham Murphy...?

Anybody considering Certificates of Tax Deposit- quick cuk search didn't bring up too much - at first glance doesn't look worth it with no interest for under £100K deposited, and only 3% due for late payment interest - if I've read it correctly?

I was also in the Sanzar 2009/10 scheme (a different DOTAS scheme number compared to 2008/09) for most of that year before bailing out after losing confidence. But I managed to pick up an open COP8 enquiry for that, received over a year ago. It says something like "our investigations are being performed centrally, you don't need to do anything" and heard nothing since. Anybody got one of those?

[cojak]

Info on contacting Horizon

http://forums.contractoruk.com/accou...ml#post1698842

[shevlane]

Hi,

I used TRM/Payschemeplus for a short period in early 2008.

Where people have demands for money, what sort of numbers are you looking at?

Are they asking for the full amount of the loan? A percentage to represent the tax which would have been due had it been salary? Or one of the above with interest/penalties attached on top?

I have spoken to a friend who also used the scheme, albeit for a much longer time.

He said the amount requested in his case did not represent the loans made or any meaningful percentage. He is under the impression they do not have the full information and are almost guessing how much money people should be liable for.

This is consistent with what my letter from HMRC demands. The amount is just a lump sum and doesn't seem to correlate with anything like the loan amount, etc. I have a feeling that they have just applied some sort of formula and/or guessed. Which makes me wonder how much information they have on Talent Resource Management apart from the fact that you listed them as your employer in that year's tax return.

The figure itself is into 5 figures, so definitely worth fighting.

[Old Kent Road]

Regarding the new amount owed/re-assessed. Out of curiousity I phoned the local tax office mentioned in the HMRC letter yesterday, to ask how they arrived at the amount owed and why it was "estimated". At first they said it wasn't estimated until I pointed out the letter said explicitly it was estimated. Then they said it was based on information they had received from the scheme provider. For me, the amount owed for Sanzar 2008/09 looks pretty close, to within 1% accuracy - enough that I don't think it couldn't be a guess on their part.

Nobody's mentioned yet the letter says if we don't pay up within 28 days after when the tax is due (which is 1 month after the letter date) then a 5% surcharge is automatically added, followed by another 5% after 6 months. Some polite encouragement.

[meanttobeworking]

Meantobeworking - Can I please ask if you responded to HMRC using the guidelines/letter that EDGE provided?
Thanks.

Yes, I took their advice and had them check the letter before I sent it.

[sal626]

Regarding the new amount owed/re-assessed. Out of curiousity I phoned the local tax office mentioned in the HMRC letter yesterday, to ask how they arrived at the amount owed and why it was "estimated". At first they said it wasn't estimated until I pointed out the letter said explicitly it was estimated. Then they said it was based on information they had received from the scheme provider. For me, the amount owed for Sanzar 2008/09 looks pretty close, to within 1% accuracy - enough that I don't think it couldn't be a guess on their part.

Nobody's mentioned yet the letter says if we don't pay up within 28 days after when the tax is due (which is 1 month after the letter date) then a 5% surcharge is automatically added, followed by another 5% after 6 months. Some polite encouragement.

Does the figure they estimated include interest?

[a Man of Constant Sorrow]

Edge Consulting Contact Details

For those seeking contact details for Edge Consulting:

http:// edge-resourcing.com

0845 2870400
07624 427650

I have both written and left a VM for them this morning, enquiring into the level of support being offered and as to whether this is a general process in place to follow.

[bluerover]

Hi all,

A reminder from my previous post that I am in the same camp as bluerover (& many others) :- Talent Resource Management (now Raingold) for tax year 2008/09. However, I think this same set of companies owns Norla, Sanzar, etc.

An update from my side...

Today I also called Raingold, who also referred me to Tax Talk UK. I spoke the principal consultant there, Mark Boardman, who was quick to point out that they are a separate company from Raingold and that I would have to engage them personally (i.e. pay them on a per hour basis). I did explain that a whole bunch of us have received identically worded letters from HMRC on the same date, and he did say that if there are a number of us with effectively identical cases, that he would be open the idea of us pooling our resources and defending this properly. He is an ex-tax inspector who is now a tax advisor, although not a tax lawyer (if it were to go to court).

The process he described was that the initial step is to write the letter saying that you disagree. Then they will typically write back asking for more information. You will then write back with evidence relating to your employment and of the loan. And then it goes back and forward until you reach an agreement, they give up, or you go to court. He agreed to provide me a template for the initial letter for free.

A side note to this, I have noticed on the Tax Talk UK website, that although they say they are a different company from Raingold, that they share the same address. I'm really not sure what the arrangement is here, but I am interested to know Cobham Murphy offer to help you for free? Or is that the initial letter only, and then you have to pay?

Has anyone else had an different advice / experience today?

I spoke to Mark yesterday and was a little dismayed at the support (not his fault) in that they weren't really dealing with the problem but more offering assistance for a fee. I was hoping (albeit naively) that this support (with Raingold being the new TRM) would be offered without charge as we were ex employees of the scheme.

I was going to appeal independently and see what happened. I havent as yet done anything but would be interested in any letter template that TaxTalk UK provide.

On a personal level (and obviously to a degree everyones circumstances will be different) I do not have all the documentation from that time. Not brilliant but a situation I am in. Also, the figures that HMRC quoted in terms of whole amounts for that year (previous tax return and new amounts) is less than I received in that year.

If I get asked for more information I can only with any degree of accurancy quote payments in that period of time which would basically open myself up to a higher bill potentially. That said my basis of appeal is down to the fact that it was a loan (I can substantiate that) and it was not taxable income.

Very interesting reading other comments particularly from dannyc09 about being told to appeal!!

[Old Kent Road]

Does the figure they estimated include interest?

Oh yes - a new 2008/09 entry has magically appeared in my HMRC Self-assessment online portal, and it has the tax amount plus interest, about 3 years worth at 3% per year I think.