Excluded from the McCann settlement

[loanchargehurt]

I'm beginning to feel uncomforatble about some of the content in this thread. In my opinion we should stop fighting each other but instead focus on supporting those fighting one or more of these 2 (or are there 3?) EXTERNAL battles.

1. Battle One: HMRC and the Government's original Loan Charge Legislation. It's clear the original approach to threaten and then tax all income in one year was badly administered and heavy handed in the extreme. I 100% agree it is manifestly unfair that those people who fought back (like me) or ignored HMRC altogether, should now be in a more favourable position than those who agreed pre-McCann settlements. I believe the new McCann terms should apply to all Loans regardless of the scheme dates or whether the contractor has previously settled under the original punitive terms. loanchargehurt I feel your best recourse is via your MP, wider lobbying or legal challlenge. I also believe this thread should be closed because it is also the theme of an existing and active thread: Independent Loan Charge Review
2. Battle Two: Attempts to redefine and pursue Loan Payments as valid debts. Those of us who stupidly engaged in these loan schemes and then (to add insult to injury), suffered an onslaught from Felicitas / W28 et al, thought these dodgy loan recalls had finally gone away. Then came the April 2026 'thud on the doormat' which heralded a storm of activity on the Contractor UK forum. Again, this is covered by an existing and very active thread West 28th Street Limited. I hope that with the combined input of fellow forum members and the recent intervention by Dan Neidle, they'll now retreat back to their rat's nest.
3. Battle Three? Third party big groups. I.e. those who seem to have generated considerable funds from allegedly taking the fight to the promoters and their subsequent debt agencies. This is an area where I only have anecdotal evidence of what has been charged and what (if any) progress has been made. I've made my position clear in other posts, I prefer to fight my own battles and thus far seem to be in the same position as those who joined 'big groups' such as WTT or Elysium. I have no idea if they're in any way linked to the likes of West 28th Street, Felicitas or any of their earlier incarnations, but they have clearly benefited financially. That's not my battle to fight so I'll stay on the sidelines and only contribute if I feel I can help someone.

One of my favourite cliches is to "pick your battles". Now as I sometimes say to my Grandchildren, "can we all now play nicely please?"

This thread is very different from the existing and (barely) active thread 'Independent Loan Charge Review' because this thread is about those people who have been excluded from that Review. As you have said you are not one of them please don't ask for the thread to be closed.

The point being there is nobody fighting this battle for the very people who complied by either agreeing settlement (under threat of a more penal Loan Charge), or declared their loans and agreed a payment plan. You refer to "fighting back" but actually you presumably did not declare your loans on your 2019 Tax Return?

We have a situation here where those worst affected are not being represented. How easy would it be for the lobby group LCAG to point out that Mr McCann himself encouraged settlement, under threat of the more penal Loan Charge, then he effectively removed the Loan Charge and gave better terms to those who ignored his advice and avoided that tax (tax avoidance). Have you considered why this is not the focus of the lobby group?

[woody1]

Unfortunately, I can't see this having much legs. Most people who've settled, whilst they might be miffed about it, have probably put this whole episode behind them and tried to get on with their lives.

I'd advise others might want to do the same, if nothing else than for their sanity.

[loanchargehurt]

Just a bit of history...

When WTT first started promoting their services on this website it was as "BIG GROUP" to take the loans fight to HMRC. This was back in 2015 before the Loan Charge came along and the repayment extortionists started appearing. Can't remember what they ended up charging but it was something like 20 quid a month.
https://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc...big-group.html

Later they offered services to fight the extortionists (Felicitas, W28 et al). They also charged a lot more (few grand I think) to be part of their litigation action.

------

I don't think any of this achieved that much but those with them, who continued to fight HMRC and didn't settle, are at least now able to benefit from the McCann settlement. So it wasn't all for nothing, although I don't think WTT can take much credit for McCann which was mainly down to the work of The Loan Charge APPG.

Thanks for the share of the extensive Big Group thread.
There is much to ponder in there!
https://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc...ml#post2086103

Note that I did share earlier that the WTT Big Group fees reached at least £6,000 (vat inclusive)just to join!
https://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc...ml#post3008385

[loanchargehurt]

Shall we just say getting people fightlng each other is loanchargehurt 's purpose in life and leave it there.

I believe I know exactly who he is and he isn't here for the good of others - as every post his made should have made very clear by now...

I have reported this as harassment by Eek but no doubt Cojak & Eek will look to block or ban me instead.

[Diagnose b4 u prescribe]

This thread is very different from the existing and (barely) active thread 'Independent Loan Charge Review' because this thread is about those people who have been excluded from that Review. As you have said you are not one of them please don't ask for the thread to be closed.

The point being there is nobody fighting this battle for the very people who complied by either agreeing settlement (under threat of a more penal Loan Charge), or declared their loans and agreed a payment plan. You refer to "fighting back" but actually you presumably did not declare your loans on your 2019 Tax Return?

We have a situation here where those worst affected are not being represented. How easy would it be for the lobby group LCAG to point out that Mr McCann himself encouraged settlement, under threat of the more penal Loan Charge, then he effectively removed the Loan Charge and gave better terms to those who ignored his advice and avoided that tax (tax avoidance). Have you considered why this is not the focus of the lobby group?

For the avoidance of doubt, I am merely a guest so do not have the power to close this thread. My "fighting back" was because I'd already declared my loans and actively engaged HMRC back in 2015-16. I also paid an APN in 2017. When the LC standard letters started arriving later that year, I wrote to HMRC on several occassons stating I was out of scope of LC 2019 because I'd already engaged them and made payments. They failed to respond for almost 2 years so I used that as my defence and dug in my heals. As I said before, I pick my battles and I explained I was prepared to go to Court or Tribunal to defend my case. They therefore agreed to putting me in a 'holding pattern' while also awaiting things like the Morse and McCann reviews to take place. Fortunately for me, it appears I will now be able to benefit from the new terms and also offset the many payments on account I've already made.

Finally, my choice of name on here is deliberate. I prefer to diagnose before I prescribe. We need to go with the facts and not assume we know others actions and motives.

[loanchargehurt]

For the avoidance of doubt, I am merely a guest so do not have the power to close this thread. My "fighting back" was because I'd already declared my loans and actively engaged HMRC back in 2015-16. I also paid an APN in 2017. When the LC standard letters started arriving later that year, I wrote to HMRC on several occassons stating I was out of scope of LC 2019 because I'd already engaged them and made payments. They failed to respond for almost 2 years so I used that as my defence and dug in my heals. As I said before, I pick my battles and I explained I was prepared to go to Court or Tribunal to defend my case. They therefore agreed to putting me in a 'holding pattern' while also awaiting things like the Morse and McCann reviews to take place. Fortunately for me, it appears I will now be able to benefit from the new terms and also offset the many payments on account I've already made.

Finally, my choice of name on here is deliberate. I prefer to diagnose before I prescribe. We need to go with the facts and not assume we know others actions and motives.

I appreciate what you say, however the law would have still required you to declare your loans in your 2019 Tax Return eve though you had previously engaged with HMRC.

To not do so would be tax avoidance, even if that was not your intention at the time, from which you are now benefitting.

But those who did follow the law and declared their loans in their 2019 Tax Return, or settled in advance of having to declare loans, they don't get the new terms. It's back to front isn't it.

[loanchargehurt]

Unfortunately, I can't see this having much legs. Most people who've settled, whilst they might be miffed about it, have probably put this whole episode behind them and tried to get on with their lives.

I'd advise others might want to do the same, if nothing else than for their sanity.

Hence the reason for the post. Are people just going to roll over and accept that they go screwed by HMRC & the McCann Review for complying, or are they still around?

Some may still be paying HMRC if they had a lengthy settlement agreement.

Some may have finished paying but feel miffed by the fact they were charged late payment interest and IHT, whereas those who didn't declare their loans have escaped late payment interest and IHT and received discounts (up to £70k).

I'm miffed. Those who didn't comply with the law got better terms from both Morse and now McCann.

[WTFH]

Hence the reason for the post. Are people just going to roll over and accept that they go screwed by HMRC & the McCann Review for complying, or are they still around?

Some may still be paying HMRC if they had a lengthy settlement agreement.

Some may have finished paying but feel miffed by the fact they were charged late payment interest and IHT, whereas those who didn't declare their loans have escaped late payment interest and IHT and received discounts (up to £70k).

I'm miffed. Those who didn't comply with the law got better terms from both Morse and now McCann.

Who was your loan with?

[woody1]

But those who did follow the law and declared their loans in their 2019 Tax Return, or settled in advance of having to declare loans, they don't get the new terms. It's back to front isn't it.

Settlement is a legally binding contract, and is deemed as final and irrevocable.

By definition, if you settle, you can't benefit from future developments eg. the outcome of a court case, or a legislative change.

HMRC will vigorously resist any attempt to undermine the finality of settlements.

[loanchargehurt]

Settlement is a legally binding contract, and is deemed as final and irrevocable.

By definition, if you settle, you can't benefit from future developments eg. the outcome of a court case, or a legislative change.

HMRC will vigorously resist any attempt to undermine the finality of settlements.

Yes I agree.

However, at the time of the deadline there were no pending post-DR cases (still none) nor the likelihood of any legislative changes and the consequences of not taking action before 2020 would be the penal loan charge as per the legislation.

As I said earlier, how easy would it be for the lobby group LCAG to point out that Mr McCann himself encouraged settlement, under threat of the more penal Loan Charge, then he effectively removed the Loan Charge and gave better terms to those who ignored his advice and avoided that tax (tax avoidance).

Why this is not the main focus of the lobby group?