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Hmrc disguised remuneration loans information required!

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    #41
    My take on a few things. I've tried to keep this concise because it's easy to lose focus in these situations.

    2017/18
    This year might be in the clear now because it's over the 4 years for HMRC to raise a discovery assessment (they had until 5 Apr 2022). However, it might still get caught by the Loan Charge, or HMRC might try to invoke the 6-year rule for carelessness.

    Loan Charge
    I'm not sure if this will apply or not but technically it would only be for years up to 2018/19. All loans received up to 5 Apr 2019 would be added to your income in the 2019/20 tax year. Has the scheme provider ever said why the Loan Charge would not apply to this scheme?

    Interest & Penalties
    If you settle, you will definitely have to pay late payment interest on top of the tax & nics. It won't be a lot; about 12% for 2017/18, 9% for 2018/19 and less for later years. I don't know if HMRC will impose any penalties, and you won't find out until you approach HMRC for settlement.

    What to do next
    • At the very least, if you do nothing else, provide the information for 2018/19 that HMRC have asked for.
    • Decide if you want to settle and get closure on this mess. If so, approach HMRC asap.
    • If you would prefer to get professional help with settling, try a local accountant. Be careful with specialist tax advisors who could charge hefty fees for what is a fairly straightforward process.
    Last edited by DealorNoDeal; 29 June 2022, 06:53.
    Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.

    Comment


      #42
      Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View Post
      My take on a few things. I've tried to keep this concise because it's easy to lose focus in these situations.

      2017/18
      This year might be in the clear now because it's over the 4 years for HMRC to raise a discovery assessment (they had until 5 Apr 2022). However, it might still get caught by the Loan Charge, or HMRC might try to invoke the 6-year rule for carelessness.

      Loan Charge
      I'm not sure if this will apply or not but technically it would only be for years up to 2018/19. All loans received up to 5 Apr 2019 would be added to your income in the 2019/20 tax year. Has the scheme provider ever said why the Loan Charge would not apply to this scheme?

      Interest & Penalties
      If you settle, you will definitely have to pay late payment interest on top of the tax & nics. It won't be a lot; about 12% for 2017/18, 9% for 2018/19 and less for later years. I don't know if HMRC will impose any penalties, and you won't find out until you approach HMRC for settlement.

      What to do next
      • At the very least, if you do nothing else, provide the information for 2018/19 that HMRC have asked for.
      • Decide if you want to settle and get closure on this mess. If so, approach HMRC asap.
      • If you would prefer to get professional help with settling, try a local accountant. Be careful with specialist tax advisors who could charge hefty fees for what is a fairly straightforward process.
      Only thing I would add is do settle - the way tribunals have dealt with cases over the last 10 years shows that fighting isn't going to achieve anything except a big lawyer / advisor bill on top of what HMRC asks for.

      Ask for time to pay and if all else fails get your MP involved to increase the time HMRC gives you.
      merely at clientco for the entertainment

      Comment


        #43
        Eek and DealOrNoDeal's advice is golden and always worth reading and following.

        The only thing I can add is, I did use a specialist Tax advisor they weren't that expensive in the grand scheme and they did get some interest and charges removed. From memory HMRC also add late payment claims to the charges.

        I'll reiterate get your MP involved if only to plead one of their constituents is suffering financially, the long term affordable TTP is the thing you need to focus on.

        Comment


          #44
          Originally posted by GregRickshaw View Post
          Eek and DealOrNoDeal's advice is golden and always worth reading and following.

          The only thing I can add is, I did use a specialist Tax advisor they weren't that expensive in the grand scheme and they did get some interest and charges removed. From memory HMRC also add late payment claims to the charges.

          I'll reiterate get your MP involved if only to plead one of their constituents is suffering financially, the long term affordable TTP is the thing you need to focus on.
          Who did you use? DealorNoDeal 's advice is good but if all you want is to settle a specialist may be cheaper than a local accountancy firm that isn't that used to dealing with HMRC...
          merely at clientco for the entertainment

          Comment


            #45
            Originally posted by eek View Post

            Who did you use? DealorNoDeal 's advice is good but if all you want is to settle a specialist may be cheaper than a local accountancy firm that isn't that used to dealing with HMRC...
            I used Gilbert Tax. I may turn to them again soon for my MSC claims.

            IMHO you need a specialist preferably ex-HMRC not sure how they do it but they (Gilbert in my case) got through to the correct people and spoke the correct language, I was most impressed when they smashed a bullying letter out of the ground and we received an apology, I would not have been able to do that.

            They are expensive per hour (£150 per hour back then - not part thereof though - if they did 15 mins work such as an email they charged me for 15 mins) but as they managed to remove more charges than I possibly could have done, they effectively became very cost effective.

            Incidentally it was Gilbert who showed HMRC that I had including in my DOTAS the scheme name, number etc., full disclosure, something HMRC missed! first time around thereby saving me from loan charge applying!
            Last edited by GregRickshaw; 29 June 2022, 09:43. Reason: Added relevant information around DOTAS to OP original question

            Comment


              #46
              Originally posted by DealorNoDeal View Post
              My take on a few things. I've tried to keep this concise because it's easy to lose focus in these situations.

              2017/18
              This year might be in the clear now because it's over the 4 years for HMRC to raise a discovery assessment (they had until 5 Apr 2022). However, it might still get caught by the Loan Charge, or HMRC might try to invoke the 6-year rule for carelessness.

              Loan Charge
              I'm not sure if this will apply or not but technically it would only be for years up to 2018/19. All loans received up to 5 Apr 2019 would be added to your income in the 2019/20 tax year. Has the scheme provider ever said why the Loan Charge would not apply to this scheme?

              Interest & Penalties
              If you settle, you will definitely have to pay late payment interest on top of the tax & nics. It won't be a lot; about 12% for 2017/18, 9% for 2018/19 and less for later years. I don't know if HMRC will impose any penalties, and you won't find out until you approach HMRC for settlement.

              What to do next
              • At the very least, if you do nothing else, provide the information for 2018/19 that HMRC have asked for.
              • Decide if you want to settle and get closure on this mess. If so, approach HMRC asap.
              • If you would prefer to get professional help with settling, try a local accountant. Be careful with specialist tax advisors who could charge hefty fees for what is a fairly straightforward process.
              Hi thanks very much for your support. I'll definitely respond and try to hmrc and give them all the information they are asking for. In a way even though I left the scheme now a year ago, I feel much better as opposed to having the letter come through when I'm still at if as I'm sure I would have been in denial like the others. I'm still waiting for the umbrella to get back to me and gave them till Friday. Is there any real prospect of them coming back and telling me anything positive which might help me when I write to hmrc?

              Comment


                #47
                Originally posted by eek View Post

                Only thing I would add is do settle - the way tribunals have dealt with cases over the last 10 years shows that fighting isn't going to achieve anything except a big lawyer / advisor bill on top of what HMRC asks for.

                Ask for time to pay and if all else fails get your MP involved to increase the time HMRC gives you.
                Hi thanks. I agree there is no need of arguing and fighting when it's clear I'm in the wrong. I'm ready to accept my punishment. If only I had found this forum earlier I wouldn't be in this mess.

                Comment


                  #48
                  If I write to hmrc and provide the information they need, how long will they likely come up with what I need to pay?. Will they work it out within weeks, months, years?

                  Comment


                    #49
                    Originally posted by taxed View Post
                    If I write to hmrc and provide the information they need, how long will they likely come up with what I need to pay?. Will they work it out within weeks, months, years?
                    I’ve not heard of anyone settling early, in order to settle HMRC must firstly either inform you what they think you owe for you to agree/disagree or to agree with your provided calculations. HMRC won’t be quick about this, I’ve waited over a couple of years now despite me/my advisor sending over our own calculations within weeks of being contacted. I was very keen at first to come to closure and continually chased HMRC and my advisor but I eventually got to a point where I thought it was pointless and gave up. I’m sure they will come back at some point but my attitude is tailored to my circumstances. I have paid everything that I believe I owe including interest so that gives me peace of mind now.

                    Comment


                      #50
                      Originally posted by taxed View Post
                      I'm still waiting for the umbrella to get back to me and gave them till Friday. Is there any real prospect of them coming back and telling me anything positive which might help me when I write to hmrc?
                      They'll probably tell you loads positive eg. they're confident the scheme is fully compliant with the law, it was approved by tax counsel and HMRC have got it wrong.

                      We've heard all that before over the past 20 years, and not once has a scheme succeeded. Not a single one of these schemes has ever stood up in court.

                      All these schemes have ever done is cause misery and hardship for tens of thousands of people.
                      Scoots still says that Apr 2020 didn't mark the start of a new stock bull market.

                      Comment

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