Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[Fuzzynavel]

It appears that HMRC are listening to reason at the moment. I sent in an appeal letter on February 25th (about my involvement with Boox) and then followed up daily by email to show that the letter had been delivered and asked them for acknowledgement that the letter had been received.

I got a reply yesterday saying:

"I have reviewed your appeal (Regulation 80 for 2018/19 and/or 2019/20 and the Section 8 NIC Decision and I acknowledge it as a valid appeal, as such I have arranged for the charges to be stood over."

Obviously I am pretty happy at the moment as it has been a stressful few weeks thinking how I was going to be able to pay £60k in the next 30 days when I haven't worked a contract in the last 11 months.

I am aware that it has only gone away for the moment and may re-appear based on their test case appeal results.

I now need to get back to growing my property investment business and generating returns from a few flips in case this comes back to bite me later.

Happy to answer any questions around my approach with HMRC.

[GregRickshaw]

Thanks Greg, appreciated. When you say HMRC can 'put a charge on it' what exactly do you mean?

If you have an outstanding debt HMRC can apply to the County Court to get a charging order applied to your house/home. This could then ultimately lead to the a Sell Order which would then force you to sell your home to pay the debt.

So although they cannot come and take your house by repossession they can force you to sell it on the open market so you should get the correct price for it, which is different to a repossession where they auction it off for the best price etc.,

If you have under 18s in the house though or dependants often the charge to sell cannot be made until the dependents are grown up etc.,

HMRC use approved and regulated debt collection agencies first though if you cannot agree with HMRC. So HMRC won't just come and take your home. They can of course take everything in it (again under 18s rules apply though) and outside of it.

Remember though at this stage this is a company debt. Though I imagine like most caught up with this you were either forced to go LTD or chose LTD for tax avoidance etc., so you do not have tons of money swimming in your business account so this debt will transfer to you.

What you need to do if it happens is negotiate with HMRC a long TTP (they are okay with this normally). If it comes to it get your local MP involved and the CAB etc., There are many ways to get through this without losing your house/home.

[Thehunter157]

No stupid questions.

HMRC can't take your home, they can put a charge on it ultimately if it came to that. Just don't think about getting a 2nd mortgage to pay the debt I know you know this but if you secure your home etc......

It really doesn't matter about Limelight for this investigation as this is about the time you were with Boox.

You need to have a think about your future accountants usage and maybe think about going DIY or a local accountant. Who knows who HMRC will target when they win these cases, no one knows. However it is clear a local accountant and/or your DIY will help you from further investigations.

Thanks Greg, appreciated. When you say HMRC can 'put a charge on it' what exactly do you mean?

[GregRickshaw]

Hi guys. Well I now know the full extent of how badly I'm involved with this car crash, really not good. But I have a couple of questions if someone wouldn't mind giving their opinion

1. Boox have transferred me over to Limelight. Am I to assume that I need to think seriously about getting away from the whole "monthly payment" accountancy model? Even though at present as I understand it, Limelight have no MSC involvement.

2. Not remotely an expert in these things, are HMRC likely to be coming after my house when they see I'm not remotely able to give them what they say I owe?

I'm scared, stressed and confused, sorry if I'm asking stupid questions.

No stupid questions.

HMRC can't take your home, they can put a charge on it ultimately if it came to that. Just don't think about getting a 2nd mortgage to pay the debt I know you know this but if you secure your home etc......

It really doesn't matter about Limelight for this investigation as this is about the time you were with Boox.

You need to have a think about your future accountants usage and maybe think about going DIY or a local accountant. Who knows who HMRC will target when they win these cases, no one knows. However it is clear a local accountant and/or your DIY will help you from further investigations.

[Thehunter157]

Hi guys. Well I now know the full extent of how badly I'm involved with this car crash, really not good. But I have a couple of questions if someone wouldn't mind giving their opinion

1. Boox have transferred me over to Limelight. Am I to assume that I need to think seriously about getting away from the whole "monthly payment" accountancy model? Even though at present as I understand it, Limelight have no MSC involvement.

2. Not remotely an expert in these things, are HMRC likely to be coming after my house when they see I'm not remotely able to give them what they say I owe?

I'm scared, stressed and confused, sorry if I'm asking stupid questions.

[DealorNoDeal]

What I am not fully clear is that the appeal has been sent for both notices and appeal requested postponement of payments.

Now, as for the Payment on account ( was this payment due with in the 30 days of date on notice letter?) The 30 day period has expired and I have not paid yet. Would I still be paying any interest or appeal (and postponement) of payments stops that additional interest anyway. And I can just pay the notice amounts as PoA.

Postponement of payment does not stop interest accruing. It just stops the amount being treated as an enforceable debt.

You can make a PoA at any time. Interest stops accruing on the amount of the PoA from the time you make the PoA.

[eek]

Hi all. I was thinking of declaring bankruptcy in the UK because I have no money and HMRC said I must pay over £30 000.

My question is that I live in Switzerland now, after I declare bankruptcy in the UK would they come after me in Switzerland as well? I dont have any savings here either though and because of MSC I will never move back to the UK again. Any advice?

It's HMRC so it is quite possible for them to chase money up abroad via the local (Swiss) tax authorities.

Get some advice because I really don't think that's a great plan.

[SwissSaffa]

Hi all. I was thinking of declaring bankruptcy in the UK because I have no money and HMRC said I must pay over £30 000.

My question is that I live in Switzerland now, after I declare bankruptcy in the UK would they come after me in Switzerland as well? I dont have any savings here either though and because of MSC I will never move back to the UK again. Any advice?

[jamesbrown]

No, there is no question about a criminal case here, it is purely civil. Criminal tax cases are generally restricted to serious instances of fraud, not highly complex/debatable issues surrounding tax legislation.

[mno]

Thank you Greg and eek.

What I am not fully clear is that the appeal has been sent for both notices and appeal requested postponement of payments.

Now, as for the Payment on account ( was this payment due with in the 30 days of date on notice letter?) The 30 day period has expired and I have not paid yet. Would I still be paying any interest or appeal (and postponement) of payments stops that additional interest anyway. And I can just pay the notice amounts as PoA.

But if I have money to pay still go ahead and make a payment based on the last notices for PAYE and NIC using the reference starting with 'X'.

Does any one have a calculation spreadsheet to show what tax would have been actually due and find out figures what HMRC actually expected us to pay vs what has already been paid and what is being asked for further by way of these notices.

Any one aware of the numbers we are talking about as to people who have appealed through CKA and Boox template appeal letters? How many may have paid on account ?

Can all this deemed employee and less tax payments be equated to a criminal offence ?

Has anyone had any success with independent review and had to eventually submit templated appeal still ?

any view points from members who have had any services provided by ipse, dk or markel tax - if what CKA are doing is the best way forward as it's not possible for most to fight this using their own resources.

Thank you again forum members