Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[Fuzzynavel]

It appears that HMRC are listening to reason at the moment. I sent in an appeal letter on February 25th (about my involvement with Boox) and then followed up daily by email to show that the letter had been delivered and asked them for acknowledgement that the letter had been received.

I got a reply yesterday saying:

"I have reviewed your appeal (Regulation 80 for 2018/19 and/or 2019/20 and the Section 8 NIC Decision and I acknowledge it as a valid appeal, as such I have arranged for the charges to be stood over."

Obviously I am pretty happy at the moment as it has been a stressful few weeks thinking how I was going to be able to pay £60k in the next 30 days when I haven't worked a contract in the last 11 months.

I am aware that it has only gone away for the moment and may re-appear based on their test case appeal results.

I now need to get back to growing my property investment business and generating returns from a few flips in case this comes back to bite me later.

Happy to answer any questions around my approach with HMRC.

[RAA]

It appears that HMRC are listening to reason at the moment. I sent in an appeal letter on February 25th (about my involvement with Boox) and then followed up daily by email to show that the letter had been delivered and asked them for acknowledgement that the letter had been received.

I got a reply yesterday saying:


Obviously I am pretty happy at the moment as it has been a stressful few weeks thinking how I was going to be able to pay £60k in the next 30 days when I haven't worked a contract in the last 11 months.

I am aware that it has only gone away for the moment and may re-appear based on their test case appeal results.

I now need to get back to growing my property investment business and generating returns from a few flips in case this comes back to bite me later.

Happy to answer any questions around my approach with HMRC.

Hi,

Good news that your appeal was successful. Do you mind me asking what kind of evidence and letter did you send? I just got a letter yesterday from HMRC addressed personally to me and not my Ltd for NIC payments so I'm assuming I'll get further letters addressed to my Ltd with more details.

I'm going to appeal this but in the past I appealed with a template from Boox when HMRC initially sent their Notice for tax year 2017/18 which they accepted as valid.

And have you contacted Qdos or joined the the survivors group at all?

Any help is much appreciated, thanks!

[Paralytic]

Good news that your appeal was successful.

Just in case you misinterpreted the post to which you responded. An appeal being stood over does not mean it was successful. It's just been put in a big box with all the others labelled "revisit these in future when the initial test cases have progressed". I'm not even sure it stops interest accumulating (a potentially not insiginficant amount on a £60K claim over what could be a few years).

[eek]

Just in case you misinterpreted the post to which you responded. An appeal being stood over does not mean it was successful. It's just been put in a big box with all the others labelled "revisit these in future when the initial test cases have progressed". I'm not even sure it stops interest accumulating (a potentially not insiginficant amount on a £60K claim over what could be a few years).

So that the other poster can see what stood over means to HMRC - here is a Parliamentary answer that should help explain it. https://questions-statements.parliam...8-06-21/156308

Over 16,000 of those appeals are ‘stood over’. This is where HMRC and the taxpayer have agreed to put the appeal on hold waiting for a decision in a related case. Stood over cases are not actively progressed by the tribunal and can remain on hand for many years while the lead case is decided.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news if you thought the letter meant you had won your appeal.

And note Interest will continue to accumulate unless a payment on account is made...

[RAA]

Just in case you misinterpreted the post to which you responded. An appeal being stood over does not mean it was successful. It's just been put in a big box with all the others labelled "revisit these in future when the initial test cases have progressed". I'm not even sure it stops interest accumulating (a potentially not insiginficant amount on a £60K claim over what could be a few years).

Sorry yes i meant stood over! As was my first appeal being judged valid and charges to be stood over

And note Interest will continue to accumulate unless a payment on account is made...

Yes i understand this but like many i don't believe my Ltd company is a MSC.

Another question I'd like to ask if anyone else has heard of being removed from the investigation as they had dissolved their company? As i know of one person this has happened to which i find strange

[mogga71]

Sorry yes i meant stood over! As was my first appeal being judged valid and charges to be stood over



Yes i understand this but like many i don't believe my Ltd company is a MSC.

Another question I'd like to ask if anyone else has heard of being removed from the investigation as they had dissolved their company? As i know of one person this has happened to which i find strange

Hi RAA .... yes I am pretty certain that closed companies are out of scope for these CK and Boox clients and it has been mentioned on these many pages somewhere. There was a webinar regarding this MSC legislation last year and one of the Tax Experts (the ever-helpful Paul Mason) said that any closed company would not be part of the investigation. Some on here questioned that but then a few months later I believe that we received news that the closed companies had been removed from the investigation...I am sure somebody will correct me if I am wrong. Basically, HMRC would have to reopen the closed Company and it would be a hassle and expensive. Looks like those guys were very lucky.

[jamesbrown]

You cannot issue a Reg 80 determination to a company that no longer exists.

But the real question is whether the company has actually been removed from the register or just seemingly closed because nothing more was heard. It is not impossible that HMRC objects to closure with those involved being unaware.

[senka311]

It appears that HMRC are listening to reason at the moment. I sent in an appeal letter on February 25th (about my involvement with Boox) and then followed up daily by email to show that the letter had been delivered and asked them for acknowledgement that the letter had been received.

I got a reply yesterday saying:


Obviously I am pretty happy at the moment as it has been a stressful few weeks thinking how I was going to be able to pay £60k in the next 30 days when I haven't worked a contract in the last 11 months.

I am aware that it has only gone away for the moment and may re-appear based on their test case appeal results.

I now need to get back to growing my property investment business and generating returns from a few flips in case this comes back to bite me later.

Happy to answer any questions around my approach with HMRC.

Hi Fuzzynavel,

First of all congratulations on your appeal being stood over.
Unfortunately, I am in a very similar situation to yours and find myself with a £30k tax bill without understanding what I have actually done wrong...

Same as you, my limited company was incorporated before I joined Boox and was already operating the same model.
I have received accountancy advice from Boox which I decided not to follow and I refused several times to connect my bank account to their platform to maintain full control of my company.

Could you please provide more details around the approach you took to appeal?
Also, are you part of the MSC group setup by David Kirk?

Thanks in advance.

[RAA]

Yes that makes sense, but what about people who have dissolved their company after getting their first notice of Reg 80? Why would HMRC allow them to dissolve it and stricken off if they are investigating it

[jamesbrown]

Yes that makes sense, but what about people who have dissolved their company after getting their first notice of Reg 80? Why would HMRC allow them to dissolve it and stricken off if they are investigating it

They wouldn't and I contend that this almost certainly hasn't happened because HMRC would block automatically. These are the cases where it may appear to those involved that their company was closed, but it wasn't, in fact.