Churchill Knight & Boox clients being investigated as Managed Service Companies

[gikap]

I would highly doubt it, you are talking about putting money back into your business account from your personal account?

Yes, returning back dividends from my personal account to company account.

[jamesbrown]

It wasn't a loan, it was a dividend, as shown in your dividend paperwork and SATRs. It's done, you cannot reverse it (and there is no value in doing so, anyway).

[gikap]

(and there is no value in doing so, anyway)

Ok, i understand now that it is not possible but i am confused about no value in doing so bit. If i was only receiving minimal salary as director and no dividends, leaving everything in the company, in this case HMRC would have no amount of payback to determine, correct?

[jamesbrown]

Ok, i understand now that it is not possible but i am confused about no value in doing so bit. If i was only receiving minimal salary as director and no dividends, leaving everything in the company, in this case HMRC would have no amount of payback to determine, correct?

I don't really understand your question but, in any case, I think the answer is moot because you cannot reverse it.

[GregRickshaw]

The only value it has and it's not financially valuable, is when HMRC come calling for the money they will go to your business first so you have it in your business bank to pay them.

However, rather than do that which wont't save you any interest etc., would be to Pay on Account to HMRC now, from your own personal account is fine, they don't care. Every £ you put in Pay on Account is something at least off the eventual interest which seems to be between 20% and 7%

You do need to get your appeal going though to have the determination stood over until the Tribunal, sounds like you haven't done that yet. That's where you need to focus now getting your appeal in.

[gikap]

Now i really struggle to understand. Is HMRC after unpaid PAYE for money my company earned or after unpaid PAYE for money my company paid to me (salary + dividends)? I left most of company earnings on the company account.

[jamesbrown]

Now i really struggle to understand. Is HMRC after unpaid PAYE for money my company earned or after unpaid PAYE for money my company paid to me (salary + dividends)? I left most of company earnings on the company account.

See the earlier discussion in this thread, but the short answer is: the former. However, bear in mind that the legislative test has no particular timeframe and the money will presumably be extracted, eventually.

But, again, there is little point in pursuing this line of thought because it cannot be reversed.

[gikap]

this is making me feel sick even more now and it has been going on for a year now. it is also a bit ironic i worked with government during most of this time, very close to HMRC department.

[GregRickshaw]

this is making me feel sick even more now and it has been going on for a year now. it is also a bit ironic i worked with government during most of this time, very close to HMRC department.

There are many caught up with this who worked with HMRC.

Some things though have you got your REg 80 determination letter for 17/18 (and the others too possibly)
If yes what is the issue date?
I'm a little concerned here you haven't appealed and had your charges stood over you need to get this done ASAP or the amount will be due and no appeal. There are others on here who didn't even get their letters until 9 months after issue date but I haven't seen any of them posting HMRC are banging on their doors so you are probably okay.

Make getting your appeal in your No.1 priority here.

As to the amounts, IF IF IF HMRC do refund the CT and DT you have already paid you are looking at a liability based on the Employers NIC HMRC claim you owe. HMRC have not yet said whether the amount of Employers NIC owed is minus the Employers NIC you have already paid.

However very rough rule of thumb, others have much better process to get the actual figure, is to take your Employers NIC amount (HMRC claim you owe) and multiply it by the number of years in the investigation, for most it's three. Add 15% interest and you have the amount you will probably end up having to pay.

Get the appeals in though as soon as you can.

[mogga71]

But, exactly that.... it's so preposterous that we no longer know what's a joke or sarcasm. This whole thing is just a mess.

Imagine if HMRC wins this (very likely according to most) and if they do... Gorilla Accounting, Parasol, PayStream, The Accountancy Partnership, Debitam, to name a few, will all be under investigation (and most likely found as an MSCP and we know what happens to the contractors). And, just think about the number of contractors involved at that point, we will be talking hundreds of thousands, who will all be in debt of £100K plus.

I know we moan there isn't a big enough spotlight on this injustice (for CK and Boox peeps), but if the above happens, I can only imagine this creating shockwaves in not only the contracting industry but on a more mainstream level. I just cannot see it happening. Too many are affected at astronomical costs and majority, if not all, actually paid their taxes as per the rules. They / we played by the book.

The likes of Paystream and Parasol are better known as Umbrella firms (for Inside IR35 clients) so am not sure they would bother with those as they would likely be wasting their time with the vast majority of their clients. But yeah I get your point and its incredibly worrying.

I would love to know the percentage of contractors blissfully still using the likes of InniAccounts who have no idea of the potential problem. I would guess the majority of them?