Best Employment Services Limited liquidation 'loan' repayments

[eek]

thanks . that's a common sense approach.

I do wonder how many others are involved.as I said i ll have to pay tax

are WTT experts.

you seem to have a thorough knowledge of this.

the loans paperwork isn't very clear and I don't think as a contract it stands up to scrutiny.

do you know how many people GT are pursuing and for how much

I wouldn't call myself an expert - just up to speed on what is happening here.

And, sadly, the quality of the paperwork doesn't actually matter as the simple fact will be that untaxed money has reached your bank account and that by itself means it's possible to argue it was just a loan (it's an employer to employee loan so don't assume consumer credit laws apply here).

As I said you really do need to get proper advice here and WTT are probably the best option as they can cover both the tax and legal bits at the same time and will have now done their ground work based on the earlier posts in this thread.

[squiffy]

I wouldn't call myself an expert - just up to speed on what is happening here.

And, sadly, the quality of the paperwork doesn't actually matter as the simple fact will be that untaxed money has reached your bank account and that by itself means it's possible to argue it was just a loan (it's an employer to employee loan so don't assume consumer credit laws apply here).

As I said you really do need to get proper advice here and WTT are probably the best option as they can cover both the tax and legal bits at the same time and will have now done their ground work based on the earlier posts in this thread.

ok HMRC have published this which might help spread the burden of the tax liability.

Statement of Practice 1 (2020) - GOV.UK

can't imagine a liquidated company will enforce a nebulous contract on flotsam on the small guys..
I do think that the tax is payable ...

but like you said , professional advice is money well spent.

[DealorNoDeal]

Statement of Practice 1 (2020) - GOV.UK

That certainly wouldn't win any plain english awards.

[Best Employee]

Hi Bestemployee. Can I suggest you get yourself a brew, put your feet up and have a read of this Revenue & Customs v Opus Bestpay Ltd (DOTAS - Application for order that certain arrangements are notifiable) [2020] UKFTT 408 (TC) (18 August 2020)

You may then like to have a rethink. You're currently flirting between the denial and anger stages of the change curve. You need to get it out of your system and get into the acceptance stage. You will then be able to handle the position a little better.

Opus Bestpay Ltd are a different company from BEST EMPLOYMENT SERVICES LTD, with a different scheme.

There are two completely separate (albeit linked) issues:

1 is tax due (whether by loancharge or otherwise) on the loans made by BES to their employees; and

2 whether BES can claim repayment of those loans form their employees?

As to 1, I do not know...my feeling is that unless BES were acting as trustees for their employees - which I doubt - no.

As to 2, a strong no but evidence will have to be adduced that it was the basis of the loan and of the scheme that the loans would not be demanded dor paid, ever. and that is what employees of BES were told, and that was a contractual term - albeit oral (and it was only ever orally made).

Anybody know the names of the BES employees who told their clients [contractor/employeess] this and who can prove the oral statements?

But this is only going to be determined in court, not advice or discussions etc. here or elsewhere. I am keen to start an action against BES. Are there any others who would be prepared to join me? [either as a party or equally importantly, as witnesses to prove what we were all told to induce us to join the BES scheme?]

[eek]

Opus Bestpay Ltd are a different company from BEST EMPLOYMENT SERVICES LTD, with a different scheme.

There are two completely separate (albeit linked) issues:

1 is tax due (whether by loancharge or otherwise) on the loans made by BES to their employees; and

2 whether BES can claim repayment of those loans form their employees?

As to 1, I do not know...my feeling is that unless BES were acting as trustees for their employees - which I doubt - no.

As to 2, a strong no but evidence will have to be adduced that it was the basis of the loan and of the scheme that the loans would not be demanded dor paid, ever. and that is what employees of BES were told, and that was a contractual term - albeit oral (and it was only ever orally made).

Anybody know the names of the BES employees who told their clients [contractor/employeess] this and who can prove the oral statements?

But this is only going to be determined in court, not advice or discussions etc. here or elsewhere. I am keen to start an action against BES. Are there any others who would be prepared to join me? [either as a party or equally importantly, as witnesses to prove what we were all told to induce us to join the BES scheme?]

On point 1 - you are completely wrong - it is your personal responsibility to pay the appropriate tax on income you receive and HMRC will regard the loan as income.

As for the rest you may wish to search this forum for the posts from Ian Richardson who is the liquidator for all of Mr Sacco's schemes. I suspect you won't like what he says - but I would love to know how you would take it to court - what will you be requesting?

And you really do need to get some proper advice here and then take some time to digest it as you seem to still be in the denial phase.

[Best Employee]

On point 1 - you are completely wrong - it is your personal responsibility to pay the appropriate tax on income you receive and HMRC will regard the loan as income.

As for the rest you may wish to search this forum for the posts from Ian Richardson who is the liquidator for all of Mr Sacco's schemes. I suspect you won't like what he says - but I would love to know how you would take it to court - what will you be requesting?

And you really do need to get some proper advice here and then take some time to digest it as you seem to still be in the denial phase.

On point 1, if it is my income, how can it be a loan from my employer. Or do you say it can be both...in which case how can it be both as a matter of fact?

And as a similar point, if it is a loan, is at a loan of my money or my employers...in which case how did they get it i.e. where did it come from?

I will be claiming for a declaration and the rectification of the loan agreement.

I have taken advice and I have a barrister lined up. What I need is for more people to come forward and support the *oral claims* made by Best Employment Services Ltd. to induce us to all join their scheme i.e. that they would never ask for repayment, nor could they ever reclaim, on the loans made which were made in perpetuity.

If anybody would be prepared to contact me for a chat/become a witness/join me in the case/ or become a party in the proceedings with me could they respond and we can make contact.

Finally, unlike a loan from a bank to you, where you are given their money which you repay, here you are being loaned your money...so why should you have to repay it? As I said earlier from whence did Best get the money to loan you? From your employers who paid it to Best for the work, you carried out for them, for it to be passed on to you. Or do you say something else, in which case what consideration did Best give for that money (and to whom)?

[Fred Bloggs]

On point 1, if it is my income, how can it be a loan from my employer. Or do you say it can be both...in which case how can it be both as a matter of fact?

And as a similar point, if it is a loan, is at a loan of my money or my employers...in which case how did they get it i.e. where did it come from?

I will be claiming for a declaration and the rectification of the loan agreement.

I have taken advice and I have a barrister lined up. What I need is for more people to come forward and support the *oral claims* made by Best Employment Services Ltd. to induce us to all join their scheme i.e. that they would never ask for repayment, nor could they ever reclaim, on the loans made which were made in perpetuity.

If anybody would be prepared to contact me for a chat/become a witness/join me in the case/ or become a party in the proceedings with me could they respond and we can make contact.

Finally, unlike a loan from a bank to you, where you are given their money which you repay, here you are being loaned your money...so why should you have to repay it? As I said earlier from whence did Best get the money to loan you? From your employers who paid it to Best for the work, you carried out for them, for it to be passed on to you. Or do you say something else, in which case what consideration did Best give for that money (and to whom)?

I think right now you would be best served by not being quite so angry and read some of the many, many threads on here that explain in detail why you are wrong on all your points. If you used schemes you are likely to be in a mess right now and you need to recognise that and move beyond the anger phase.

The post you quoted from eek is equally correct too.

[eek]

On point 1, if it is my income, how can it be a loan from my employer. Or do you say it can be both...in which case how can it be both as a matter of fact?

And as a similar point, if it is a loan, is at a loan of my money or my employers...in which case how did they get it i.e. where did it come from?

I will be claiming for a declaration and the rectification of the loan agreement.

I have taken advice and I have a barrister lined up. What I need is for more people to come forward and support the *oral claims* made by Best Employment Services Ltd. to induce us to all join their scheme i.e. that they would never ask for repayment, nor could they ever reclaim, on the loans made which were made in perpetuity.

If anybody would be prepared to contact me for a chat/become a witness/join me in the case/ or become a party in the proceedings with me could they respond and we can make contact.

Finally, unlike a loan from a bank to you, where you are given their money which you repay, here you are being loaned your money...so why should you have to repay it? As I said earlier from whence did Best get the money to loan you? From your employers who paid it to Best for the work, you carried out for them, for it to be passed on to you. Or do you say something else, in which case what consideration did Best give for that money (and to whom)?

That is again incorrect in so many ways that I can't be bothered to correct the points I've already corrected twice.

What I will add for anyone considering talking to you is https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...-requests.html

Take care who you accept PM's from - don't be too open exchanging information until you've checked them out and they've given you real life references.

As we've seen in another appeal for money to get a final decision here may take upwards of £1m. Money that could be far better spent paying the money owed as you may will need to find that money when you lose the case.

Equally I would suggest you don't deal with an anonymous poster in denial when WTT have spent time researching the issue and should know the legal position.

[Fred Bloggs]

That is again incorrect in so many ways that I can't be bothered to correct the points I've already corrected twice.

What I will add for anyone considering talking to you is https://www.contractoruk.com/forums/...-requests.html



As we've seen in another appeal for money to get a final decision here may take upwards of £1m. Money that could be far better spent paying the money owed as you may will need to find that money when you lose the case.

Equally I would suggest you don't deal with an anonymous poster in denial when WTT have spent time researching the issue and should know the legal position.

What eek says with knobs on too.

[cannon999]

On point 1, if it is my income, how can it be a loan from my employer. Or do you say it can be both...in which case how can it be both as a matter of fact?

And as a similar point, if it is a loan, is at a loan of my money or my employers...in which case how did they get it i.e. where did it come from?

I will be claiming for a declaration and the rectification of the loan agreement.

I have taken advice and I have a barrister lined up. What I need is for more people to come forward and support the *oral claims* made by Best Employment Services Ltd. to induce us to all join their scheme i.e. that they would never ask for repayment, nor could they ever reclaim, on the loans made which were made in perpetuity.

If anybody would be prepared to contact me for a chat/become a witness/join me in the case/ or become a party in the proceedings with me could they respond and we can make contact.

Finally, unlike a loan from a bank to you, where you are given their money which you repay, here you are being loaned your money...so why should you have to repay it? As I said earlier from whence did Best get the money to loan you? From your employers who paid it to Best for the work, you carried out for them, for it to be passed on to you. Or do you say something else, in which case what consideration did Best give for that money (and to whom)?

You seem to be in denial. Oral claims are worth nothing if there is a written agreement. I do wonder how this would play out in court though.

Pleb: Mister Judge, this was not a real loan - I used this to get around paying proper tax. This loan was never meant to be reclaimed. They pinky sweared.
Judge: So you admit this was a loan? Next!