HMRC Behaviours

[phil@pmtc]

I'm in touch with a journalist from a well known publication. They are keen to hear about any HMRC behaviours good or bad. I'm keen to make it as constructive as possible as it wouldn't be very useful just to say "Mr x says HMRC are ****"
Particularly useful would be if anyone is willing to provide specific examples such as them losing their home due to HMRC refusing to accept time to pay or anything along those lines. Clearly would be more powerful if willing to have the person (or business) name in print rather than anonymous. Clearly some may not wish to do so which is fine - obv no need to reply. Personally I think it could be useful for people to shine a spotlight on their own case as its a national newspaper and therefore one would hope HMRC would need to responds/be seen to do the right thing.
Again - any examples of HMRC going out of their way to assist also welcomed as this doesn't simply have to be a hatchet job. More a sensible look at how the people are being treated.

Anyone interested feel free to contact me. I know the journalist personally and am happy to make introductions if helps people feel better about assisting.

Cheers,
Phil

[Fred Bloggs]

OK, let's just get this right. The purpose of the article will be to try to elicit sympathy from the man on the Clapham omnibus and his cohort?

Let's look at it from his view point. We have a typical contractor who earns (invoices) well over GBP 100k a year. He pays no higher rate tax and claims his commuting and other costs of working against his tax bill too. He pays himself and perhaps his wife too, maybe a salary just below the NIC threshold. So they pay no EENIC or ERNIC and no higher rate tax. The man on the omnibus works his nuts off for an average of maybe GBP 27k a year gross out of which he pays income tax and EENIC as well as his employer paying ERNIC and the apprentice levy too. The man on the omnibus, the contractor and maybe his wife all get a full pension, free NHS treatment and they all get a bus pass. But only the man on the omnibus is paying for it. Shall we now try to gauge exactly how much sympathy your tax dodging tax avoiders will get from the man on the omnibus, since the tax avoider won't even have paid the pittance that the average contractor pays in tax on his > GBP 100k a year income.

Great idea eh?

[malvolio]

OK, let's just get this right. The purpose of the article will be to try to elicit sympathy from the man on the Clapham omnibus and his cohort?

Let's look at it from his view point. We have a typical contractor who earns (invoices) well over GBP 100k a year. He pays no higher rate tax and claims his commuting and other costs of working against his tax bill too. He pays himself and perhaps his wife too, maybe a salary just below the NIC threshold. So they pay no EENIC or ERNIC and no higher rate tax. The man on the omnibus works his nuts off for an average of maybe GBP 27k a year gross out of which he pays income tax and EENIC as well as his employer paying ERNIC and the apprentice levy too. The man on the omnibus, the contractor and maybe his wife all get a full pension, free NHS treatment and they all get a bus pass. But only the man on the omnibus is paying for it. Shall we now try to gauge exactly how much sympathy your tax dodging tax avoiders will get from the man on the omnibus, since the tax avoider won't even have paid the pittance that the average contractor pays in tax on his > GBP 100k a year income.

Great idea eh?

However to achieve this nirvana your contractor is on a minimum living wage and getting no benefit from his enormous income other than a bigger bank balance sat in HisCo earning nothing at all. And he will have paid 19% CT on his £110k+ gross, which is rather more than the £27k wage slave will have done. on his.

But otherwise...

[phil@pmtc]

OK, let's just get this right. The purpose of the article will be to try to elicit sympathy from the man on the Clapham omnibus and his cohort?

Let's look at it from his view point. We have a typical contractor who earns (invoices) well over GBP 100k a year. He pays no higher rate tax and claims his commuting and other costs of working against his tax bill too. He pays himself and perhaps his wife too, maybe a salary just below the NIC threshold. So they pay no EENIC or ERNIC and no higher rate tax. The man on the omnibus works his nuts off for an average of maybe GBP 27k a year gross out of which he pays income tax and EENIC as well as his employer paying ERNIC and the apprentice levy too. The man on the omnibus, the contractor and maybe his wife all get a full pension, free NHS treatment and they all get a bus pass. But only the man on the omnibus is paying for it. Shall we now try to gauge exactly how much sympathy your tax dodging tax avoiders will get from the man on the omnibus, since the tax avoider won't even have paid the pittance that the average contractor pays in tax on his > GBP 100k a year income.

Great idea eh?

As I say, nobody has to do this. I'm simply passing on the offer. Though I would suggest the article wouldn't need to go into how a HMRC debt was created - more about how they (HMRC) are now dealing with it. Either way, the option is there for people.

[Invisiblehand]

If it raises awareness then that is surely a good thing?

[SeanT]

OK, let's just get this right. The purpose of the article will be to try to elicit sympathy from the man on the Clapham omnibus and his cohort?

Let's look at it from his view point. We have a typical contractor who earns (invoices) well over GBP 100k a year. He pays no higher rate tax and claims his commuting and other costs of working against his tax bill too. He pays himself and perhaps his wife too, maybe a salary just below the NIC threshold. So they pay no EENIC or ERNIC and no higher rate tax. The man on the omnibus works his nuts off for an average of maybe GBP 27k a year gross out of which he pays income tax and EENIC as well as his employer paying ERNIC and the apprentice levy too. The man on the omnibus, the contractor and maybe his wife all get a full pension, free NHS treatment and they all get a bus pass. But only the man on the omnibus is paying for it. Shall we now try to gauge exactly how much sympathy your tax dodging tax avoiders will get from the man on the omnibus, since the tax avoider won't even have paid the pittance that the average contractor pays in tax on his > GBP 100k a year income.

Great idea eh?

But if the man on the bus still has his £200k house, and his job, and the contractor who was shafted by the scheme owners and then shafted again by HMRC loses his, does it really matter who earns more or pays more tax?

[phil@pmtc]

If it raises awareness then that is surely a good thing?

This is my thinking. Its the way they deal with debts - making people bankrupt etc which is being looked at. My thinking is that they should be seen to live upto their own charter promise of treating people fairly and with respect and the journalist's planned piece is simply checking that this is the case.

[Fred Bloggs]

If you think raising further awareness amongst the general public that thousands of highly paid contractors went for a decade or more and paid almost no tax on their inflated earnings, go right ahead. I expect that you'll find the overwhelming majority of the public will not only have zero empathy, they'll say jolly good, let's have some more of it. In my opinion anyone in this industry, tax avoider or not is best served by keeping his head down and doing nothing. This is the problem too when you have the pressure groups in the industry pleading a special case, like - "We're a proper bizniz we are" etc.... Just look at where taxation policy on micro business has been heading the last ten or fifteen years, the public frankly, couldn't give a stuff about your special pleading.

[malvolio]

This is my thinking. Its the way they deal with debts - making people bankrupt etc which is being looked at. My thinking is that they should be seen to live upto their own charter promise of treating people fairly and with respect and the journalist's planned piece is simply checking that this is the case.

It may be the case. However it is a totally pointless assertion since HMRC explicitly do not have a duty of care towards their "customers". Until they do, all else is merely window dressing.

If you want a properly documented example, look up the history of the Arctic Systems case and add to that the immediate attempt by HMT to bring in the Family Business Tax. The whole problem encapsulated in one package.

[Joolsey86]

If you think raising further awareness amongst the general public that thousands of highly paid contractors went for a decade or more and paid almost no tax on their inflated earnings, go right ahead. I expect that you'll find the overwhelming majority of the public will not only have zero empathy, they'll say jolly good, let's have some more of it. In my opinion anyone in this industry, tax avoider or not is best served by keeping his head down and doing nothing. This is the problem too when you have the pressure groups in the industry pleading a special case, like - "We're a proper bizniz we are" etc.... Just look at where taxation policy on micro business has been heading the last ten or fifteen years, the public frankly, couldn't give a stuff about your special pleading.

Maybe you should get some qualifications, be prepared to retake them every other year to keep up with technology.

When you have done this, get yourself a contract in IT. Whilst in this contract, be prepared to work harder to justify yourself, each and every day amongst the safe and secure permies you are sitting next to who are chatting about Geordie Shore or something equally inane.

Bear in mind you will have to pay yourself holiday, pension, sick pay and any health care you want, as well as Corporation tax, Employers NI, Employee NI, PAYE.