Sympathy for the Devil

[phil@pmtc]

PhilM,

Taking the retrospective argument out of this whole sorry mess for a minute. What HMRC seem to fail to realise, is due to them dragging their heals for so long, separating pre-2011 from post 2011, publishing CLSO varients that raise more questions than answers etc... they have forced many people into a position where they can no longer settle due to interest and penalties. I am one of those people, so unless there is a massive u-turn and realisation that we are not part of the mighty rich, they will get zilch from the likes of myself. They may be fine with that, but if you multiply me by a few thousand, they will lose out on a lot of revenue, whilst ruining careers and lives at the same time. Yet on the other hand, they are allowed to circumnavigate a Supreme Court decision which they invested millions in and come up with the most draconian and retrospective legislation ever, in the 2019 Loan Charge.

Hi, I fully understand your frustration along with others. I also get that others are perhaps angry at me for ever having worked at HMRC (as shown at the beginning of this thread). I now have many clients who feel (and can evidence) that LC19/APNs and the like have destroyed them and their lives. As a tax professional I have to remain as well...professional as I can at all times when offering advice and I hope you and the others in this thread can see by now that I am genuine and I am trying to assist where I can.
That will have to be it for tonight folks as need to eat and have a few bits of work to finish off. I will return tomorrow and pick up any more questions throughout the day/evening.

[BrilloPad]

PhilM,

Taking the retrospective argument out of this whole sorry mess for a minute. What HMRC seem to fail to realise, is due to them dragging their heals for so long, separating pre-2011 from post 2011, publishing CLSO varients that raise more questions than answers etc... they have forced many people into a position where they can no longer settle due to interest and penalties. I am one of those people, so unless there is a massive u-turn and realisation that we are not part of the mighty rich, they will get zilch from the likes of myself. They may be fine with that, but if you multiply me by a few thousand, they will lose out on a lot of revenue, whilst ruining careers and lives at the same time. Yet on the other hand, they are allowed to circumnavigate a Supreme Court decision which they invested millions in and come up with the most draconian and retrospective legislation ever, in the 2019 Loan Charge.

You really think HMRC fail to realise?

They will take what they can, when they can. I expect to see legal action against CUK to force details of posters to be revealed(it has happened 3 times before). Then jeopardy orders raised and money taken directly out of bank accounts. They will bully and harrass everyone, take what they can. Its the smart move.

HMRC changed the rules in 1997. Were caught out by arctic. And since then have come a long way.

And lets be honest - the vast majority of contractors have let them. Happy to throw others under the bus. Whine and bleat about their own circumstances. And lets be blunt, ANYONE USING A SCHEME SINCE 2008 DESERVES TO BE CAUGHT. A handful of posters(well two actually) valiantly publishised the retrospection that HMRC introduced. Despite being mercilessly attcked by the CUK trolls(in the professional forums!), they valianty fought on. And NTRT was born.

Anyway. I digress. If anyone think a handful of people can defeat HMRC, they are wrong. They run the country. They are evil, and must be stopped.

And it is about to get much worse. The future of contracting battle has only had a couple of opening skirmishes. Its going to get nasty. IPSE will be pivitol in that fight.

I had a bellyful of civil rights with f4j. BN66 was just too far for me. Where are the people with fire in their belly? Who would kidnap Leo Blair. Who would parachute into the middle of the world cup final(well would have been except for an untimely microlight death a week earlier). Who would break into Buckingham Palace while having guns pointed at them. Generation snowflake I guess.

I am also disappointed that this thread has not been moved to general. I am itching to say what I really think. To try to get the OP to a real-life meet up.

[phil@pmtc]

You really think HMRC fail to realise?

They will take what they can, when they can. I expect to see legal action against CUK to force details of posters to be revealed(it has happened 3 times before). Then jeopardy orders raised and money taken directly out of bank accounts. They will bully and harrass everyone, take what they can. Its the smart move.

HMRC changed the rules in 1997. Were caught out by arctic. And since then have come a long way.

And lets be honest - the vast majority of contractors have let them. Happy to throw others under the bus. Whine and bleat about their own circumstances. And lets be blunt, ANYONE USING A SCHEME SINCE 2008 DESERVES TO BE CAUGHT. A handful of posters(well two actually) valiantly publishised the retrospection that HMRC introduced. Despite being mercilessly attcked by the CUK trolls(in the professional forums!), they valianty fought on. And NTRT was born.

Anyway. I digress. If anyone think a handful of people can defeat HMRC, they are wrong. They run the country. They are evil, and must be stopped.

And it is about to get much worse. The future of contracting battle has only had a couple of opening skirmishes. Its going to get nasty. IPSE will be pivitol in that fight.

I had a bellyful of civil rights with f4j. BN66 was just too far for me. Where are the people with fire in their belly? Who would kidnap Leo Blair. Who would parachute into the middle of the world cup final(well would have been except for an untimely microlight death a week earlier). Who would break into Buckingham Palace while having guns pointed at them. Generation snowflake I guess.

I am also disappointed that this thread has not been moved to general. I am itching to say what I really think. To try to get the OP to a real-life meet up.

As new to the forum I'm genuinely unsure why a different part of the site affects what people can say? If it helps I'm happy to receive any personal message.

[webberg]

I think the posts from the OP, so far, are a breath of fresh air, even if they are merely confirming what we already knew.

I have some questions however and a suggestion.

1. We know HMRC is these days a process driven organisation with little tax knowledge except at the top of the tree. How do we beg an audience with those who have influence over Treasury policy? (We have tried the top down approach via the MPs and they are all looking to their own careers and are useless. We remain hopeful of having a Parliamentary committee onside to review HMRC conduct here, pitched as a chance for a headline hungry MP to stand on a soap box, but hope and reality ...?).

2. We meet with senior CA officers regularly and they take back the "message" but are soon told to toe the line. Why is this and what is the process there?

3. We encounter many instances that in some eyes are seen as conspiracy by HMRC using underhand tactics but which others see as more cock up and incompetence. What is your view?

Suggestion.

I and my firm are well known here and not vain enough to think we have the only answers. I'd be happy to meet and put some background time in so that you can become familiar with the whole issue more quickly.

[BrilloPad]

As new to the forum I'm genuinely unsure why a different part of the site affects what people can say? If it helps I'm happy to receive any personal message.

I am not convinced I am trip=trapping over a bridge. However I will bite. As I am bored.

In professional robust opinions are allowed. So is terseness that may appear rude.

If you want to know what general is like, try posting a "sympathy for the devil" thread there. Or any thread there.

As admin says "Abandon hope all ye who enter here. Seriously"

[phil@pmtc]

I think the posts from the OP, so far, are a breath of fresh air, even if they are merely confirming what we already knew.

I have some questions however and a suggestion.

1. We know HMRC is these days a process driven organisation with little tax knowledge except at the top of the tree. How do we beg an audience with those who have influence over Treasury policy? (We have tried the top down approach via the MPs and they are all looking to their own careers and are useless. We remain hopeful of having a Parliamentary committee onside to review HMRC conduct here, pitched as a chance for a headline hungry MP to stand on a soap box, but hope and reality ...?).

2. We meet with senior CA officers regularly and they take back the "message" but are soon told to toe the line. Why is this and what is the process there?

3. We encounter many instances that in some eyes are seen as conspiracy by HMRC using underhand tactics but which others see as more cock up and incompetence. What is your view?

Suggestion.

I and my firm are well known here and not vain enough to think we have the only answers. I'd be happy to meet and put some background time in so that you can become familiar with the whole issue more quickly.

Hi, I'm going to send you a pm. We can chat on phone tomorrow if you're free and I'm more than happy to meet up also as always good to expand contacts etc.

[flamel]

Hi Phil

What % of the tax liability are HMRC accepting as being reasonable?

125% plus IHT plus interest plus your life

[NotAllThere]

I am also disappointed that this thread has not been moved to general. I am itching to say what I really think. To try to get the OP to a real-life meet up.

You could start a thread in General, and post a link here to it.

As new to the forum I'm genuinely unsure why a different part of the site affects what people can say? If it helps I'm happy to receive any personal message.

If I understand correctly, he wants to make a few personal comments about the type of person who would ever work for HMRC. Insulting posters is not permitted outside of General, and even there if it gets too nasty, the mods will intervene.

[BrilloPad]

You could start a thread in General, and post a link here to it.

If I understand correctly, he wants to make a few personal comments about the type of person who would ever work for HMRC. Insulting posters is not permitted outside of General, and even there if it gets too nasty, the mods will intervene.

So I can be as nasty as I like by PM then. Excellent. I will get going now.

<BP in HMRC law interprettation mode>

Seriously, I am very wary of people offering "solutions" to those caught by HMRC. Has any due diligence been done on PhilM? Please tell me you have proved he is not Alan Jones.

Those how used schemes are by nature stupid, vulnerable and gullible. I used them myself. However, at least I stopped digging in 2008.

The best solution is where those affected get together and run their own group(like NTRT). Be very wary where advisors get paid whatever the outcome. BG has proved themselves the exception.

-------------------------
On another point, I know alot of people lurk on these forums. I get alot of PMs from people I have helped personally. Yes it is a tough , unrewarded job. However someone ought to do it.

[BrilloPad]

You could start a thread in General, and post a link here to it.

I disagree. However I am a compliant poster who bows at the feet of my mod overlord.

noob nonsense

Dear noob. You could always trying to get new clients here https://forums.contractoruk.com/gene...thy-devil.html . This is definetly not a sweetie trail - general does not need fresh meat.