Overdrawn Capital Account Scheme (Aston Mae / Glen Mae / Procorre)

[srowell8]

So i have 1 question today, if i got "paid" via a loan from a 3rd party - who's got my money and why can get get it back (with interest of course) ?

[Fred Bloggs]

So i have 1 question today, if i got "paid" via a loan from a 3rd party - who's got my money and why can get get it back (with interest of course) ?

Very simply - You gave your money to a tax avoidance scheme. They loaned it back to you. Your money has gone, you gave it away. It rests with a trustee somewhere. Unfortunately we're in the realms of Schrodinger money here, the money can be income and loans at the same time. Unfortunate but true.

[cojak]

So i have 1 question today, if i got "paid" via a loan from a 3rd party - who's got my money and why can get get it back (with interest of course) ?

I think you’ve got this the wrong way around. You give them your day rate and in turn they loan you the money back. In theory (and not such a hypothetical one at that - see Felicitas) they can recall the loan. I don’t know if they’d try to charge you interest on it though…

[srowell8]

I think you’ve got this the wrong way around. You give them your day rate and in turn they loan you the money back. In theory (and not such a hypothetical one at that - see Felicitas) they can recall the loan. I don’t know if they’d try to charge you interest on it though…

So the end customer was invoiced for my services (i had a PO/contract) with the value of the work identified - they paid an invoice raised by Barclay Carter, (thats my money (IMO)), that money went somewhere and then Procorre paid me via a drawdown, if I paid the loan back i would have worked for nothing, surely ? The money received should have been used to credit the drawdown after the project had finished. What am i missing ...?

[GregRickshaw]

So the end customer was invoiced for my services (i had a PO/contract) with the value of the work identified - they paid an invoice raised by Barclay Carter, (thats my money (IMO)), that money went somewhere and then Procorre paid me via a drawdown, if I paid the loan back i would have worked for nothing, surely ? The money received should have been used to credit the drawdown after the project had finished. What am i missing ...?

And this right here is QED of why these things are so complicated for mere mortals to understand and exactly why they thrived at the time....and.... why it has taken HMRC so long to finally catch up.

[srowell8]

People may already know this so apologies if I am just catching up ....the 1 project I did with Procorre was for Scottish Power - they told me to go through "Barclay Carter" who then passed me onto Procorre for payment (very slick but very obtuse and I sent lots of emails at the time asking for clarity - very little received). I am only now joining the dots. I struggled to find anything on Barclay Carter BUT i now know they were registered as "Project Supplies LTD" - Director Anne Margaret O'DONNELL. Who of course is also a Director of Procorre. Well it's a small world -

[Fred Bloggs]

So the end customer was invoiced for my services (i had a PO/contract) with the value of the work identified - they paid an invoice raised by Barclay Carter, (thats my money (IMO)), that money went somewhere and then Procorre paid me via a drawdown, if I paid the loan back i would have worked for nothing, surely ? The money received should have been used to credit the drawdown after the project had finished. What am i missing ...?

In essence it's very simple as I said above. You agreed to give the invoiced money to a 3rd party. The 3rd party then gave you a loan.

That's what's happened when you strip everything else away.

[srowell8]

In essence it's very simple as I said above. You agreed to give the invoiced money to a 3rd party. The 3rd party then gave you a loan.

That's what's happened when you strip everything else away.

Yes, i understand that but a "loan" should mean they haven't actually discharged their liability to you for the money you earned. In effect (i think) they have created a 2nd transaction where you become a creditor to them for the loan but (again I think) that shouldn't remove their liability to you to pay you the money you have earned for service provided.....no where's my accountant ?

[Fred Bloggs]

Yes, i understand that but a "loan" should mean they haven't actually discharged their liability to you for the money you earned. In effect (i think) they have created a 2nd transaction where you become a creditor to them for the loan but (again I think) that shouldn't remove their liability to you to pay you the money you have earned for service provided.....no where's my accountant ?

Please don't overlook the fact that you gave the invoiced money to a 3rd party. From that point on, it's not your money any more.

Unfortunately for you, despite all the promises you were made tax is due. It's just been deferred, not avoided.

And at the same time there's a loan which could, but may not, be called in. That's not what the slick promoters told you when you signed up. But that's what's happened none the less.

[srowell8]

Yes, i understand that but a "loan" should mean they haven't actually discharged their liability to you for the money you earned. In effect (i think) they have created a 2nd transaction where you become a creditor to them for the loan but (again I think) that shouldn't remove their liability to you to pay you the money you have earned for service provided.....no where's my accountant ?

I agree with all that although not sure all the liability’s have been discharged. I am not trying to avoid any tax (in fact the opposite I want to settle what’s due) but question is has a fraud or perhaps more likely a mis-selling scam been perpetrated and should people be held to account ?