Reply to: Overdrawn Capital Account Scheme (Aston Mae / Glen Mae / Procorre)

[mightyspur]

HMRC contacted my advisor again asking for more information. This time the Sale ledgers for the accounting period and some additional statements, most of which has already been shared with them. They just seem so disorganised

[mightyspur]

Someone posting on something on linked in - did they specify how much was owed, or how much their client earned?

TTP is based on multiple things, so if you owed £5,000 and were earning £100,000 a year, they are not going to offer you 5 years to repay it.

Which tax advisor are you using? They should be able to take you through all of it, and be able to get HMRC to hurry up a bit.
Just read one of your previous posts and it implies that you asked HMRC for a settlement figure over 3 years ago. When did you last contact them to chase it up and did they respond? I don't mean to worry you, but 3 years is just 3 more years interest. It's in your best interests to be hounding them - or better yet paying a professional to hound them.

Fair questions. They put an image up of the letter that showed the total amount owing was around £280k, but didn't advise how much the client earned. The agreement was for £4000 per month over 5 years with a payment of around £8k at the end to settle the remaining balance. I assume that total amount included interest and any penalty fees.

I'm using WTT and have asked what the likely settlement terms will be, but they said there is no point speculating at this point until HMRC are able to provide the actual settlement figure, which is fair enough.

I understand it can be based on many things as to what they allow, and that HMRC generally ask for your household income after all your bills are taken off and then say they will take 50% of your disposable income. I have done some rough calculations and I estimate I will have around £2.5k per month after significant sacrifices that I would have available to repay. Taking that number as a starting point I'll probably be needing a 10 year TTP agreement (assuming it is over or around £300k), which I had thought was offered by HMRC. I was just spooked a little by the language used by this tax advisor on their post so was after some reassurance, or understanding that although it isn't the norm they do offer longer TTP arrangements as others have that in place already.

I'm also hoping that the outcome of this review currently being undertaken by the government means they will be willing to offer more favourable repayment terms (although there are obviously no guarantees on that).

In the mean time I'm paying as much as I can already and have been for the last 6 months in an effort to show willing and try to reduce the balance/stay on top of the interest charges that are accumulating.

[WTFH]

I know a few people here have managed to sort out a TTP with HMRC. Unfortunately I am still waiting for the final settlement figure, although I am concerned (based on Reg 80 / Section 8 notices it is going to be north of £300k and at the moment I see no feasible way of being able to pay that unless I am offered a very long TTP settlement, of say 10 years. I thought that this was possible and people had been offered this in the past, but I noticed a post on LinkedIn from someone saying how they have successfully managed to sort one for their client of 5 years and saying how much of a battle it was and how it isn't the norm etc and now I'm worried.

Is anyone here on a TTP arrangement that is longer than 5 years?

Someone posting on something on linked in - did they specify how much was owed, or how much their client earned?

TTP is based on multiple things, so if you owed £5,000 and were earning £100,000 a year, they are not going to offer you 5 years to repay it.

Which tax advisor are you using? They should be able to take you through all of it, and be able to get HMRC to hurry up a bit.
Just read one of your previous posts and it implies that you asked HMRC for a settlement figure over 3 years ago. When did you last contact them to chase it up and did they respond? I don't mean to worry you, but 3 years is just 3 more years interest. It's in your best interests to be hounding them - or better yet paying a professional to hound them.

[mightyspur]

I know a few people here have managed to sort out a TTP with HMRC. Unfortunately I am still waiting for the final settlement figure, although I am concerned (based on Reg 80 / Section 8 notices it is going to be north of £300k and at the moment I see no feasible way of being able to pay that unless I am offered a very long TTP settlement, of say 10 years. I thought that this was possible and people had been offered this in the past, but I noticed a post on LinkedIn from someone saying how they have successfully managed to sort one for their client of 5 years and saying how much of a battle it was and how it isn't the norm etc and now I'm worried.

Is anyone here on a TTP arrangement that is longer than 5 years?

[GregRickshaw]

I had cause to deal with HMRC recently, though not because of any of the schemes.

I had a similar experience as you, but it's important to distinguish between the on-phone HMRC staff (who were very helpful) and the Field Collection people (pay everything now or we take your house).
The field collection people are very poorly informed contractors who come to your house to put the frighteners on.

Were these the the Rottweilers you experienced? Brrrrr....

There's been a definite shift in sympathy maybe the mental health push? I remember being late in my very early days for a CT payment and the inspector there telling me he'd have three people at my house at the end of the week with a For Sale board! For real! He asked me if I thought it was funny because I let out a startled laugh how you do...

I had one field agent knock the door before I had moved my address to an office who was very sly, kept trying to get in and look past me into the house.

I think now only the debt collection agencies would come to your door, not clueless HMRC, those companies are heavily regulated these days.

[Dorkeaux]

I used an advisor and they were brilliant, I have advised of their name many times, Gilbert Tax. They did everything for me even managed to get rid of late charge fees (and the interest on the late fees).

I would 100% go to an advisor.

I have found recently going to HMRC directly they do seem to have employed much more sympathetic advisors compared to the Rottweilers they had a few years ago, whose go to advice was sell your house or we're coming to get it anyway.

I had cause to deal with HMRC recently, though not because of any of the schemes.

I had a similar experience as you, but it's important to distinguish between the on-phone HMRC staff (who were very helpful) and the Field Collection people (pay everything now or we take your house).
The field collection people are very poorly informed contractors who come to your house to put the frighteners on.

Were these the the Rottweilers you experienced? Brrrrr....

[GregRickshaw]

Did you agree your TTP directly with HMRC or you went through a tax advisor. Is is worth going through them?

I used an advisor and they were brilliant, I have advised of their name many times, Gilbert Tax. They did everything for me even managed to get rid of late charge fees (and the interest on the late fees).

I would 100% go to an advisor.

I have found recently going to HMRC directly they do seem to have employed much more sympathetic advisors compared to the Rottweilers they had a few years ago, whose go to advice was sell your house or we're coming to get it anyway.

[Snooky]

Did you agree your TTP directly with HMRC or you went through a tax advisor. Is is worth going through them?

I went through a tax advisor. It wasn't cheap but they worked out what the settlement should be and dealt with HMRC on my behalf, including advising me what payment schedule might be acceptable to HMRC.

This was Montpelier, not Procorre, but it was a similar situation.

[Mistyblue]

I hear Procorre is not helping. Does it mean they wont appeal on this matter any more . Do they not have a duty of care to take us out of this mess. Is this not in the contract. I have not worked at all in 2020/2021 and yet HMRC has sent me letters with outstanding NIC. They have given liability for 2018/19 and 2019/20 . there is no clue how they arrived with the figures. You all are talking high figures mine are very small . Should I now that they are saying Procorre is not res[ponding, approach HMRC directly and enquire how they got the figures from and then arrange payment agreement? Could somebody guide me please. cannot even afford to get a specialist. I was with Glen Mae and was taken over by Procorre without my consent saying it will be same agreement as before. Glen Mae vouched everything is HMRC approval.

[Mistyblue]

Given this may run and run (and has already run) you need to get your own ideal scenario underway which is a settlement from what you say in your posts.

A good tax advisor will be able to get the figure HMRC say you owe, then get your tax advisor to call them and work out the TTP, a good advisor can do this very quickly and easily. Then you get your life back at least.

I don't know WTT enough to comment but I don't think any of the tax advisors has had even a sniff of winning one 'these' cases, they (the tax advisors) just seem to keep asking for appeals and more information whilst charging a lot of money (which is fine they have a job to do), but given the history of DR's/Schemes etc., are you just throwing more good money after bad.

I settled (not this scheme) a long time ago, got a long TTP thanks to my advisors and my MP and got on with life. Found I could pay it off in half the time but important thing was I got my life back.... ulp

And then MSC came... ha ha ha...

Did you agree your TTP directly with HMRC or you went through a tax advisor. Is is worth going through them?

[Mistyblue]

I reached an agreement with HMRC to repay the loan charge liability + penalties + interest. I'm 63 and this will take me until I'm 76 to repay. Happy days - no, but at least it's ended the constant stress and worry about how bad the outcome might turn out to be.

Did you negotiate with HMRC yourself or you went through a third party please? How did you do it?

[cojak]

Received an email yesterday from another ambulance chaser firm, this time RPC Legal asking if I want to join The Procorre LLP Group Association to challenge HMRC on their decision, all for the extremely reasonable price of £3500.

Think I'll pass, thanks.

Jeeze, any opportunity, eh?

[mightyspur]

Received an email yesterday from another ambulance chaser firm, this time RPC Legal asking if I want to join The Procorre LLP Group Association to challenge HMRC on their decision, all for the extremely reasonable price of £3500.

Think I'll pass, thanks.

[piebaps]

Remember this link https://forums.contractoruk.com/hmrc...f-options.html

And in particular this advice;

If you are feeling desperate about the situation you are finding yourself in with regards to the HMRC please talk to someone about what is happening (talking on forum does not count). Please talk to a friend, a family member or someone from an organisation like Samaritans (ph. 116 123). Sharing what you are going through with someone can make a big difference to how you feel even if the circumstances don't change.

Talking about financial matters is not easy or normal for most people and there may be a feeling of shame about the situation holding you back from talking to someone. It might be helpful to frame the conversation like this

- You made a mistake and a lot of other people have made the same mistake
- This was openly and widely marketed and no action was taken by the HMRC to shut the schemes down when the action started
- The HMRC are now taking retrospective action but are only targeting the end users of the scheme not the schemes promoters or end clients who may have forced people into using the scheme

Please also remember that it is just money. Yes it is crappy to maybe maybe lose your home and go bankrupt and see your earnings from a lot of hard work disappear but you can survive and rebuild afterwards. I can't speak for everyones situation but please take time to consider what you do have and what the HMRC cannot take away from you.

[suckerpunch]

Have you still not started the process, now you're into the Christmas shutdown, HMRC shutdown... their interest and late penalties don't. Choose someone to do your bidding and get started, this is truly one of those moments in your life where time is absolutely of the essence.

I have started the process, yes, I have asked Gilbert Tax to represent me.

Now I wait to see what fresh hell next year will bring. A few weeks, maybe months, of stress and self-loathing. It's hit me bad. My wife and I have become strangers living in the same house and I can't look at the kids without feeling guilty. My son wants to go to college and then university, but that might not happen because of my poor choices.

I wake up early to exercise every day - it helps dissipate the anxiety, but not the shame.

I'll keep you all updated - writing about it helps.