Montpelier DTA scheme bulletin

[helen7]

What's happening with the NTRT TAA?

Has it gone to court yet?

Nope not yet, and no date. A lot of members have settled with HMRC due to the threat of fines/penalties (minimum 10% up to 50%).

[helen7]

I am new to posting on these forums but have kept an eye on them for a while. I was with Montpelier for two years in the early 2000s. I settled with HMRC after the FNs and APNs and have tried to reclaim the class 4 NICs that the HMRC never asked for within the first 6 years so they should be out of scope based on the Limitations ACt of 1980. However, HMRC appear not the understand my claim and say the APNs were sent correctly - which I assume means the two APNs I got for the two years of NICs. If anyone can help to get back the NICs please let me know how. I probably do not have pm access as just joined today - could admin arrange this for me?

I heard that some people got automatically refunded NI APNs. However, those were on cases where corrective action had not been taken. If you have taken CA, it might be an uphill battle.

The law is odd. HMRC are not forbidden from asking for the NI and are not forbidden from collecting it - they merely cannot enforce collection. So, they are right in saying that the APNs were issued correctly. What they didn't tell you was that you weren't obliged to pay it.

[washed up contractor]

Nearly everyone in NTRT not only contributed a lot of time and money to their class action but, also had to put up with a lot of vitriol from many CUK posters. Some of whom may now be finding the chickens are coming home to roost.

Anyone in NTRT and giving info away on here really should think first before posting outside of the NTRT forums over advances made in their fight against HMRC. Not only do HMRC monitor this site but Im afraid anyone giving NTRT sourced advice to those who chose not to join NTRT, isnt playing cricket.

[outofthesand]

NICs

First of all thanks a million to BrilloPad for the advice this time last year. I pushed back to HMRC with various challenges as advised, and they still haven't responded yet. It really bought me some precious time as i had real cashflow issues back then.

Which brings me to my next point..
After my challenge they then wrote back saying they would respond to me by a certain date (which was Sept 17 off the top of my head). When it got near that date, they wrote again, kicking the can and saying Dec 17, then again Feb 18, and now i just had another letter saying they would now respond by May 15th.

Concurrently I've been reading about the 6 year rule re NIC's here on this forum with great interest, ie after 6 years they have no right to collect. I've also read in a few other places online that the government are not happy about this collection limitation, and plan to amend the legislation so that they can collect retrospectively indefinitely (as they can with income tax, ie 6 year rule vanishes).

SO
Their delaying sounds nice, but I now suspect they might be up to something, perhaps a dastardly plan to wait until the regulations are changed, and then after that come knocking again, thereby when they ask this time, whether the money 'owed' is over 6 years old or not will have no bearing, and so they can once again demand.

Does anyone else have a similar experience of them kicking the can in terms of APN challenges roughly this time last year? And what happened in the end (if anything has yet)? Does anyone else think they may be up to something?

Does anyone have any ideas how to avoid this situation from happening (supposing my concern is genuinely plausible)?
For example, is it worth writing to them again (before any announcement on rule changes, which i'd expect early April time if it happens), stating something along the lines of "further to my previous challenge, according to the Statute of Limitations Act (1980), you have no right to enforce these NIC claims, and that therefore they must write off their claim immediately..

I figure if i do this before any announcement from them, I may have an argument along the lines of I struck the first blow, they cannot attempt to enforce it on me after any announcement, since my letter forced their hand to write off their claim BEFORE the rules are changed. In other words, even if they change the rule there can be no debt to chase as it should have already been written off beforehand (or should have been, as my challenge came pre-rule change). I figure if i don't write to them, it would leave me more vulnerable.

Something is telling me i need to write something to them quick, re SoL Act, to get this challenge formally recognised...
Or maybe i'm just being paranoid (the non-conspiracy theory view is that they are not getting back to me simply because they are underresourced).

I'd be interested to hear what the more experienced of us think about the above (sorry if it's a big garbled).

Steve.

[phil@pmtc]

First of all thanks a million to BrilloPad for the advice this time last year. I pushed back to HMRC with various challenges as advised, and they still haven't responded yet. It really bought me some precious time as i had real cashflow issues back then.

Which brings me to my next point..
After my challenge they then wrote back saying they would respond to me by a certain date (which was Sept 17 off the top of my head). When it got near that date, they wrote again, kicking the can and saying Dec 17, then again Feb 18, and now i just had another letter saying they would now respond by May 15th.

Concurrently I've been reading about the 6 year rule re NIC's here on this forum with great interest, ie after 6 years they have no right to collect. I've also read in a few other places online that the government are not happy about this collection limitation, and plan to amend the legislation so that they can collect retrospectively indefinitely (as they can with income tax, ie 6 year rule vanishes).

SO
Their delaying sounds nice, but I now suspect they might be up to something, perhaps a dastardly plan to wait until the regulations are changed, and then after that come knocking again, thereby when they ask this time, whether the money 'owed' is over 6 years old or not will have no bearing, and so they can once again demand.

Does anyone else have a similar experience of them kicking the can in terms of APN challenges roughly this time last year? And what happened in the end (if anything has yet)? Does anyone else think they may be up to something?

Does anyone have any ideas how to avoid this situation from happening (supposing my concern is genuinely plausible)?
For example, is it worth writing to them again (before any announcement on rule changes, which i'd expect early April time if it happens), stating something along the lines of "further to my previous challenge, according to the Statute of Limitations Act (1980), you have no right to enforce these NIC claims, and that therefore they must write off their claim immediately..

I figure if i do this before any announcement from them, I may have an argument along the lines of I struck the first blow, they cannot attempt to enforce it on me after any announcement, since my letter forced their hand to write off their claim BEFORE the rules are changed. In other words, even if they change the rule there can be no debt to chase as it should have already been written off beforehand (or should have been, as my challenge came pre-rule change). I figure if i don't write to them, it would leave me more vulnerable.

Something is telling me i need to write something to them quick, re SoL Act, to get this challenge formally recognised...
Or maybe i'm just being paranoid (the non-conspiracy theory view is that they are not getting back to me simply because they are underresourced).

I'd be interested to hear what the more experienced of us think about the above (sorry if it's a big garbled).

Steve.

Hi, Sent you a PM
Whilst I'm a tax advisor, others in this forum will confirm I'm always happy to take calls to offer general advice for free and this case is a good example of that. I used to run the APN response team at HMRC so as well placed as anyone to offer advise on this one. Feel free to give me a call. cheers
Phil

[Loan Ranger]

Even if the Government do remove NICs from LA 1980, I would be very surprised if it's retrospective.

This doesn't just affect scheme users but anyone with unpaid NICs over 6 years old.

[washed up contractor]

Even if the Government do remove NICs from LA 1980, I would be very surprised if it's retrospective.

This doesn't just affect scheme users but anyone with unpaid NICs over 6 years old.

I wouldnt put it past HMRC to retrospective grab NICs supposedly outstanding from more than 6 years ago where the enquiry is still open and not closed if this legislation is enacted.

I *think* if you had a dispute with HMRC that involved non payment of NICs that had been closed by HMRC or the Tribunal process, you'll be home and hosed. If not, better keep your fingers crossed.

[OnARoadToNoWhere]

NIC Charges

HMRC have 6 years from 2007 to claim. So you can reclaim that money.

All,

I am in contact with a company of ex HMRC that has 'friends' in HMRC and l asked them to look into the situation in regards to NICs, the response is;

'that the Limitations Act you refer to probably relates to what HMRC, my consultancy colleagues & myself know better as the ‘Statute of Limitations’.

'You are right in that with this particular Act, HMRC cannot collect any NIC charges (not interest) beyond the point where they are time-barred…..unless they have previously ring-fenced the year or years in question and raised protective assessments as is their right, or issued amended assessments or a ‘closure notice’.

'In your case, unfortunately, someone decided it was the right thing to do and amended assessments for the years 2006/07 & 2007/08 were issued by the department on 29/01/09 & 21/11/11 respectively - and it therefore looks like we have little movement against HMRC’s current stance.'

I'm not sure what this means but its not straight forward.


Thanks

[Laxmi]

Treasury committee

Please make your submission to this committee regarding your experiences with HMRC related to enquires & settlements. This is an opportunity to highlight HMRCs abuse of power and mistreatment of so called 'customers' and a lot more.

Please people take the time to do this as it should have an impact as it did with the RBS GRG scandal. We need as many submissions as possible.

So spread the word. Join Twitter as well.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/c...isputes-17-19/

Put your testimonies here as well:
https://www.dotas-scandal.org/

[washed up contractor]

Please make your submission to this committee regarding your experiences with HMRC related to enquires & settlements. This is an opportunity to highlight HMRCs abuse of power and mistreatment of so called 'customers' and a lot more.

Please people take the time to do this as it should have an impact as it did with the RBS GRG scandal. We need as many submissions as possible.

So spread the word. Join Twitter as well.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/c...isputes-17-19/

Put your testimonies here as well:
https://www.dotas-scandal.org/

Thanks, but you've no need to tell an organisation you decided not to join what to do.