Montpelier DTA scheme bulletin

[nearlyover]

HMRC are very aware that NICs are subject to the Limitation Act 2008. I heard as much from one of their staff in a recent telephone call. And, from previous posts above and in other threads, it appears there has been some success in invoking the Act to not pay out-of-time contributions.

Did anyone get anywhere with this?

[Tiger22]

Corrective action taken - what now?

So I've had the follower notice and APNs for the year I was in the DTA scheme. I have taken corrective action and paid the APNs (including being duped into paying the NI).

HMRC have sent their letter back effectively saying "thanks for bending over and taking one, we'll be back in touch at some point in the future."

How do I finally bring this sorry state to end and get them to formally close the year? I want and end to it, not for them to sit on it for years to come in a state of uncertainty. Do I write to them and, if so, what do I say?

[CanPayButWouldRatherNot]

So I've had the follower notice and APNs for the year I was in the DTA scheme. I have taken corrective action and paid the APNs (including being duped into paying the NI).

HMRC have sent their letter back effectively saying "thanks for bending over and taking one, we'll be back in touch at some point in the future."

How do I finally bring this sorry state to end and get them to formally close the year? I want and end to it, not for them to sit on it for years to come in a state of uncertainty. Do I write to them and, if so, what do I say?

if you paid with ctd's then there wont be interest to pay.

if you paid with cash then they will be back with a bill for the interest on the money outstanding (or so i believe)

[mj62]

WTT

HMRC are very aware that NICs are subject to the Limitation Act 2008. I heard as much from one of their staff in a recent telephone call. And, from previous posts above and in other threads, it appears there has been some success in invoking the Act to not pay out-of-time contributions.

Did anyone get anywhere with this?

WTT Big Group forums are a good place for such discussions. People there are gathering info and what has happened to whom but haven't concluded anything yet... It may depend on whether you challenged the NICs before or after you took Corrective Action

[QUODM]

I got suckered by HMRC on NIC...

I am sadly one of the suckers on this. I got a last minute APN (x2) which had NIC added on both for the first time (in all the years this was in dispute).
I contested saying (as had been advised) that they were statue barred from collecting this debt.
But I had been issued an FN threatening 50% penalties (on this NIC as well) if I didn't pay by a given date.
HMRC replied to first letter (LoR) and just ignored this question.
I put this question again in a second letter (again as advised) and they just never replied to second letter.
MP went quiet on me just as my deadline approached (as they often do which is really irritating when you need them - making me wonder if I can actually trust them as otherwise I do think I can...), I rang HMRC and they said "they hadn't had time to read my letter but I needed to pay up!" I put this question to them - how can you charge me for something that you are statute barred from collecting? I got a non committal mumbling shrug but you need to pay up.

So faced with silence from MP, doubts on whether they were going to win anyway, HMRC not even not even bothering to answer my question when put to them directly and potential 50% penalties added onto this I paid up and signed the 'relinquish my advantage" confession form which feels like a proper medieval witchhunt - you are guilty and pay a penalty if you don't confess. (Magna Carta anyone?)

All in all feels like dealing with a bunch of repugnant scmbags and the more I have read on these forums, the more annoyed I get that I should have just refused payment on this. It feels that in 7 years of investigation they slipped the NIC in at the last minute when I had a payment deadline so I wouldn't have time to investigate and refuse payment.
I think I was even charged interest on the NIC (although need to check) so now I feel like I should be able to get back the NIC, the interest on it and get a reverse interest payment for HMRC from having overpaid tax in their account.

Has anyone here succeeded in getting this back after signing the confession? I probably have a recorded call on this as my phone records all calls if I can dig it out.
How can collecting a debt that they have no right to collect, under the threat of punative penalties, be in any way what parliament intended?

[nearlyover]

got a reply

took the best part of a year... but (unsurprisingly) in essence HMRC state that they disagree that the Limitations Act applies wrt NIC. They also consider previous agreement that it applied incorrect on their part.

That's the end of the journey for me. Did the NTRT spin-off group have any joy on their path in the end or is that still ongoing?

[webberg]

took the best part of a year... but (unsurprisingly) in essence HMRC state that they disagree that the Limitations Act applies wrt NIC. They also consider previous agreement that it applied incorrect on their part.

That's the end of the journey for me. Did the NTRT spin-off group have any joy on their path in the end or is that still ongoing?

Why is it the end of the journey?

There is surely no surprise that HMRC went for the route that generates maximum revenue. That does not mean that their analysis is correct.

The next step is to either challenge the analysis and ask HMRC to prove it, or to go to an adviser and challenge it via the Tribunals.

If the cost is too much, seek people in the same position.

Giving up is music to HMRC's ears.

[OnARoadToNoWhere]

Why is it the end of the journey?

There is surely no surprise that HMRC went for the route that generates maximum revenue. That does not mean that their analysis is correct.

The next step is to either challenge the analysis and ask HMRC to prove it, or to go to an adviser and challenge it via the Tribunals.

If the cost is too much, seek people in the same position.

Giving up is music to HMRC's ears.

All - does the Loan Charge 2019 impact this at all, l see that many MPs are against this...

[OutRiding]

NIC challenge

Why is it the end of the journey?

There is surely no surprise that HMRC went for the route that generates maximum revenue. That does not mean that their analysis is correct.

The next step is to either challenge the analysis and ask HMRC to prove it, or to go to an adviser and challenge it via the Tribunals.

If the cost is too much, seek people in the same position.

Giving up is music to HMRC's ears.

Is there group challenging the HMRC's interpretation of the limitations acts and the collection of NIC?

[RunningMan]

European court cases on BN66

Hi all,

I remember Montpelier had a BN66 case based on human rights heard by the ECHR and lost it.

I wonder what happened to all the other cases that have been put forward such as KPMG / Steed .. does anyone have any knowledge or case references I could look up?

From a very old thread:

"Steed/KPMG Case

Like Montpelier, they are challenging the legislation on Human Rights grounds, but have applied directly to the European Court of Human Rights instead of the UK courts.

Their application was submitted in January 2009. It was acknowledged in June 2009 but they are still waiting to hear if permission will be granted." I am not sure if this case was bundled in with Montpelier in the end or if this is still ongoing - I cant find details anywhere.

Also, a Wiki website on BN66 says that there was a wealth management agency who teamed up with KPMG and Ernst & Young to challenge BN66 .. I know this is all very old stuff - but does anyone know if this ever went ahead and what happened in the end? I cant find details anywhere ...