BIG GROUP

[WalterWhite]

Shame they won't put interest on hold until said resolution is resolved !!

Surely they have to?

[BrilloPad]

Surely they have to?

No. They have their own rules.

[WalterWhite]

No. They have their own rules.

I understand they have been able to introduce new rules, etc etc

But, surely, putting things on hold and continuing to charge interest is something they cannot do - successfully at least?

Maybe Webberg can shed some light?

[Dylan]

If you want interest to stop you can deposit funds with HMRC now.

[BrilloPad]

I understand they have been able to introduce new rules, etc etc

But, surely, putting things on hold and continuing to charge interest is something they cannot do - successfully at least?

Maybe Webberg can shed some light?

No doubt they will claim you should never have used the scheme in the first place. Or settled when you had the chance. HMRC can do ANYTHING they want.

If you want interest to stop you can deposit funds with HMRC now.

Via a CTD - agreed.

[webberg]

As above really.

If HMRC claim you owe tax and that tax was due (for example) 31st January 2010 (08/09 liability), then interest runs from the due date to the date you finally pay.

Interest is presently 2.75% pa, simple. It last changed around a year ago and was at 3% from around early 2009 to August 2016.

For a liability from the early 2000's, additional amounts of 30% or more of the tax could fall due.

NIC also attracts interest.

The argument is that if you don't owe the tax, you will not pay any interest. If you do owe the tax then you can either buy a CTD (which stops interest from the date acquired) or make a payment on account which can have a similar effect but can also be complicated. You can also accelerate settlement by pushing HMRC along!

The last is in reality very difficult and always makes my blood boil when trotted out (usually by HMRC to MPs in response to a difficult question). You can ask a Tribunal to hurry HMRC along but again the reality is that the Judges are sympathetic to HMRC and their painfully slow information collection process (again blamed on individuals) and getting to the first Tribunal action (HMRC being instructed to issue a closure notice) can be easily several years after the year the liability relates to.

There is consequently an inherent bias that pushes taxpayers into often illegitimate settlements.

That is not helped by a lot of advisers not being able or willing to charge fees over the sort of periods that an enquiry, Tribunal, resolution may take. Many will eventually advise clients to settle simply because extracting fees from clients becomes difficult as work is done but progress is not made. Again, lack of progress is largely at the door of HMRC who control the timetable.

Unfortunately, when an MP asks about the above, the stock HMRC answer of "it's all the fault of taxpayers who don't want to pay (note, not those who are not legally obliged to pay)" is routinely passed from MP to constituent without critical examination and follow ups are put in the file marked "vexatious and difficult constituent", rather than "Government agency is not fit for purpose".

Sorry - rant over.

[BrilloPad]

Sorry - rant over.

It is deeply sad that HMRC seem to run the government and are untouchable.

[webberg]

It is deeply sad that HMRC seem to run the government and are untouchable.

I think money - and the lack of it - runs the Government.

Ever since Inland Revenue and Customs and Excise merged, standards have gone downhill.

IR used to be persistent, tough, patient and careful. If you were investigated, you could guarantee that IR had something important or relevant and therefore some good reason to investigate.

C&E were more likely to be of the mindset that EVERYBODY was a tax avoider and didn't bother too much with careful analysis and examination, preferring the "raid first, questions later" approach.

When the two merged, C&E's aggressive approach was what was preferred and the result is what we see today.

We see an agency that is barely accountable to Treasury; who present numbers that have little veracity; have policies that have nothing to do with operating the system and everything to do with maximum tax collection; have perfected the art of deflecting criticism from MPs and everybody else; employ pysc warfare that the security service would be proud of; have any number of safe houses culminating in "taxpayer confidentiality"; consider themselves untouchable; have staff who seem to be driven by envy and jealousy or who are so demoralised that they'll just do as they're told because it's easier than being human.

The fact that they are in this condition is the fault of poor oversight. PAC became a personal soapbox for headline seeking MPs. TSC is ignored as being "after the event". Commissions like the recent Taylor exercise are fed misleading data and so come to misleading conclusions.

They are, as you say, untouchable and until we get a Government that recognises just how unfit for purpose they are and orders a root and branch review, we are stuck with the daily injustices that HMRC delivers with impunity.

HMRC is driving a stake into the heart of the trust that the public used to have in them. They are widely seen, not just by contractors, as untrustworthy and unfair and eventually they will reduce confidence in themselves to such an extent that we will see a return of the "tax revolts" last seen over the Poll Tax.

It's no secret that I used to work at the Inland Revenue. Those who trained me and who were my superior officers, I'm sure, do not recognise HMRC as being from the same source.

If the situation was not one where lives are being ruined by the application of poor policy being delivered by people who frankly just don't care or even delight in the misery they cause, it might be a work of fiction.

Sadly, this is real and we all have to live in the nightmare created.

[cojak]

My experience was that Customs and Excise were rigorous but fair when it came to VAT - if you made a mistake, they would explain why you were wrong and work with you to correct, but woe betide you making the same mistake twice.

I believe that it was someone in IR getting hold of C&E powers that did for us all..

[webberg]

Entirely possible.