BIG GROUP

[webberg]

Apologies if you feel teased.

I have to be careful about some information that is confidential and not in the public arena.

TAA is a group that has identified a particular argument for a particular scheme and which has support from a well known accounting firm and barrister. We understand that they have been preparing for a Tribunal hearing and that it may happen this year, perhaps next.

If you were part of that scheme, almost certainly you would have been contacted by them already.

[Clairol]

Apologies if you feel teased.

I have to be careful about some information that is confidential and not in the public arena.

TAA is a group that has identified a particular argument for a particular scheme and which has support from a well known accounting firm and barrister. We understand that they have been preparing for a Tribunal hearing and that it may happen this year, perhaps next.

If you were part of that scheme, almost certainly you would have been contacted by them already.

No need to apologise. I understand your tact and I appreciate that you take the time to reply.

I am trying to work out if I should join Big Group or get individual advice. Any thoughts on that appreciated.

[regron]

No need to apologise. I understand your tact and I appreciate that you take the time to reply.

I am trying to work out if I should join Big Group or get individual advice. Any thoughts on that appreciated.

Hi Clarirol,

Firstly I have to admit that I am a member of BG and will therefore obviously recommend them. However, one thing they will allow you to do is give them a call, explain your situation in more detail such as what schemes you were in, how long you were in them for etc.... and they will then advise you on whether you would benefit from them or not. So please give them a call, it costs nothing and will hopefully allow you to move onto the next step best for you.

[Clairol]

Thank you so much for that.
I have called WTT and sent them some information so I hope to hear back soon.
I am really struggling to understand what the settlement terms are/our liability. I can't understand the document that HMRC have issued.
I have seen some terms on these threads but there seems to be conflicting views.
Is there a plain English version of the HMRC document that spells out what tax/NI/Interest is payable on open/closed years please? Or maybe my view is too simplistic?

[webberg]

Thank you so much for that.
I have called WTT and sent them some information so I hope to hear back soon.
I am really struggling to understand what the settlement terms are/our liability. I can't understand the document that HMRC have issued.
I have seen some terms on these threads but there seems to be conflicting views.
Is there a plain English version of the HMRC document that spells out what tax/NI/Interest is payable on open/closed years please? Or maybe my view is too simplistic?

The HMRC document says that the payments you received should be treated as income and be added to the income you have already declared.

Where the exact number is not known, an estimate will be used.

For years to 2010/11 HMRC charges tax at the appropriate rate plus interest from the date the tax should have been paid.

For the years 2011/12 and after, they will charge tax, NIC and interest.

An open year is one which has a valid enquiry and has tax/NIC/interest charged as above.

A closed year is where there is no enquiry. HMRC are "prepared" to settle for a voluntary payment equal to the tax that would have been charged. As it is voluntary, they cannot charge NIC or interest.

[ChimpMaster]

The HMRC document says that the payments you received should be treated as income and be added to the income you have already declared.

Where the exact number is not known, an estimate will be used.

For years to 2010/11 HMRC charges tax at the appropriate rate plus interest from the date the tax should have been paid.

For the years 2011/12 and after, they will charge tax, NIC and interest.

An open year is one which has a valid enquiry and has tax/NIC/interest charged as above.

A closed year is where there is no enquiry. HMRC are "prepared" to settle for a voluntary payment equal to the tax that would have been charged. As it is voluntary, they cannot charge NIC or interest.

Referring to the part in bold: presumably as part of the 2019 loan charge this will become a mandatory payment, regardless of whether the years in question are open or closed.

[webberg]

Referring to the part in bold: presumably as part of the 2019 loan charge this will become a mandatory payment, regardless of whether the years in question are open or closed.

That is what HMRC claim, yes.

[AnotherContractor]

That is what HMRC claim, yes.

From this discussion, it's still not clear whether the Loan Charge is applicable to the closed years agreed under the CLSO..

[Clairol]

Confused

Feeling confused now. Spoke to HMRC.

What's the difference between an EBT and Contractor Loans please? Does it make a difference from a settlement point of view?
The HMRC chap said he couldn't advise me on settlement terms because he dealt with EBT's and we have Contractor Loans.

Is it that EBT's are companies and Loans are for individuals?

[webberg]

From this discussion, it's still not clear whether the Loan Charge is applicable to the closed years agreed under the CLSO..

Correct, it's not clear.

Up to perhaps a year ago, a settlement (CLSO or otherwise) did not usually include a closed year and no tax or interest was paid.

From a year or so ago, HMRC started insisting that a voluntary payment was made to cover closed years. Refusal to pay usually meant that HMRC picked up "their" ball and went home, stopping play.

When the first papers on the 2019 charge appeared, they said that the charge would not capture years that had been "implicitly" already agreed. Under questioning HMRC retreated into a shell.

The legislation certainly contains no explicit exemption but does talk about "tax already agreed".

So, your guess is as good as anybody's.

My opinion is that closed years will be included in the 2019 charge. I'm sure that others will have a different view and until we see some debate on the issue (unlikely given the very limited time for this) we are not likely to have a proper answer, which is appallingly bad.