UKIP Vs Good Old fashioned self interest

[Coalman]

As do Mich and I. The difference is that having seen exactly the same EU laws as we have here implemented in other countries we can see that by far the larger part of the problem is down to how our national government has chosen to implement many EU directives. I also see many things that aren't subject to EU legislation AFAIK getting royally ****ed up.

Leaving the EU won't get rid of the ****wits in charge of Britain it will just give them more scope to **** things up.

The fundamental problem is that the things we need (reform of the tax system, real expert led reform and less political meddling in education and healthcare, and urgent action to tackle both the housing crisis and the demographic timebomb of state pensions) simply aren't on the table because no one will vote for them. Ultimately that's a problem with democracy and to that end a bit of undemocratic forced medicine taking (which will eventually come, painfully and expensively at the hands of the financial markets) is the only thing that will work.

Count me in on this view too. I'm sure there is more of a consensus for this view than you think DA.

[Mich the Tester]

As do Mich and I. The difference is that having seen exactly the same EU laws as we have here implemented in other countries we can see that by far the larger part of the problem is down to how our national government has chosen to implement many EU directives.

Precisely. I'd also add that when national governments make a right royal bugger up of their own making, for example the botched semi-privatisation of the Dutch railways that nobody asked for, they're very quick to blame the EU and say 'we were forced to 'liberalise the rail market'. Ask for the particular piece of EU legislation and how it could be enforced and they're a bit tongue tied. The fact is that the EU never did order the Dutch government to split up the railways and is not standing in the way of plans by some parties to bring tracks and trains back under one company.

[SpontaneousOrder]

And your basis for them being raving socialists and wannabe despots is what, exactly?

Well hold on... You wanted a hundred names. Now suddenly a hundred names isn't particularly meaningful. So you're saying that your assertions about the number of historical users stored in a database, my ability to name them, and bile, were pretty much just trash talking?

I.e. we could have skipped the last few posts and you could have just responded initially with "What makes you think that the vast majority are raving socialists & wannabe despots"?

[TheFaQQer]

Well hold on... You wanted a hundred names. Now suddenly a hundred names isn't particularly meaningful. So you're saying that your assertions about the number of historical users stored in a database, my ability to name them, and bile, were pretty much just trash talking?

I.e. we could have skipped the last few posts and you could have just responded initially with "What makes you think that the vast majority are raving socialists & wannabe despots"?

You asserted that 99.9% of CUK members were raving socialists and wannabe despots. I pointed out that that would amount to 17000 members of CUK who you describe as being raving socialists and wannabe despots.

I then suggested that you couldn't find 100 members out of those 17000. You took that to mean "list 100 members". I apologise for your not being able to understand that when I said

I suspect that you'd struggle to name 100 out of the 17000 that you claim to be here.

you thought I meant "list 100 people who are members of CUK" rather than from the list of raving socialists and wannabe despots on CUK.

So, I'll reword it...

Based on your figure of 99.9% of CUK members being raving socialists and wannabe despots, can you name 100 posters who meet that description?

100 posters would be a mere 0.5% of the CUK membership, so it should be dead easy for you to identify 100 posters who are raving socialists and wannabe despots.

[Coalman]

You asserted that 99.9% of CUK members were raving socialists and wannabe despots. I pointed out that that would amount to 17000 members of CUK who you describe as being raving socialists and wannabe despots.

I then suggested that you couldn't find 100 members out of those 17000. You took that to mean "list 100 members". I apologise for your not being able to understand that when I said
you thought I meant "list 100 people who are members of CUK" rather than from the list of raving socialists and wannabe despots on CUK.

So, I'll reword it...

Based on your figure of 99.9% of CUK members being raving socialists and wannabe despots, can you name 100 posters who meet that description?

100 posters would be a mere 0.5% of the CUK membership, so it should be dead easy for you to identify 100 posters who are raving socialists and wannabe despots.

Oh Oh - me please sir.

Can i be Despot For A Day?

[TheFaQQer]

Well hold on... You wanted a hundred names. Now suddenly a hundred names isn't particularly meaningful. So you're saying that your assertions about the number of historical users stored in a database, my ability to name them, and bile, were pretty much just trash talking?

I.e. we could have skipped the last few posts and you could have just responded initially with "What makes you think that the vast majority are raving socialists & wannabe despots"?

I'll make it even easier for you. There are currently 115 CUK members online.

If 99.9% of CUK members are raving socialists and wannabe despots, then that would equate to 114 of them.

So simply identify 40 out of those 114 who are raving socialists and wannabe despots.

[TheFaQQer]

Oh Oh - me please sir.

Can i be Despot For A Day?

That's 1. Where are the others?

[Smartie]

Anyway,

UKIP doing well is a good thing for democracy. The EU is not democratic and as it's moving towards an 'ever closer union' that problem will increase.
When small parties get a lot of support, the bigger parties start listening more closely to what people want - more democratic.

Happened with the Green Party on environmental issues, happened with the BNP (yes they're a good thing too) on immigration.
It only results in watered down versions of their policies but then that's what most people want anyway - they don't want to wear hemp clothes and have cold showers, they don't want to send everyone back to where they came from and they don't want to leave the EU - they want it reformed and democratic.

The questions are "Who can you vote for as an effective protest vote against the current EU situation?" and "will a good result for UKIP increase the chances that the big parties will take these valid concerns more seriously?"

[Mich the Tester]

The questions are "Who can you vote for as an effective protest vote against the current EU situation?" and "will a good result for UKIP increase the chances that the big parties will take these valid concerns more seriously?"

Good points and very valid questions. Given that the Conservatives are now, through the PM, planning to renegotiate the EU membership and reforms, and that Conservative MEPs actually turn up to work at the European Parliament becaue they are taking your concerns seriously, can I suggest voting Conservative?

[Smartie]

can I suggest voting Conservative?

You can suggest it, but as a miner's son it's unlikely I'll ever vote for the Tories. I think the coalition has somewhat tempered their excesses though - it's such a shame that we didn't get proportional representation.

Anyway, I doubt Cameron will get very far with his 'renegotiation' but a high UKIP result in this election would give him a lot more ammunition to try it with.