One more reason to leave the EU

[Ticktock]

Are you saying that governments haven't done a good job of planning the necessary healthcare in the places it's going to be needed?

In some cases, yes, especially when local population levels have suddenly spiked - this can be due to immigration (so may tie back to the EU for those who want to argue that).
What I'm really saying is that it's more difficult for them to plan well.

[Pondlife]

Actually, it was a parody of Mr Gittins old man.

An Express reader to the core but get him on the subject of the NHS and he puffs out his chest and gets all dewy eyed.

And there are a lot of people just like him so you can imagine how any kind of radical reform is going to be an uphill struggle.

Well, this is getting a little awkward now.

[doodab]

What I'm really saying is that it's more difficult for them to plan well.

As NHS planning and budgeting has largely been decentralized to various trusts it's arguably a data point in favour of the opposite point of view i.e. that centralized planning is actually superior. There certainly seems to have been a lack of central oversight in the NHS that has let some shocking failures happen.

[Mich the Tester]

In some cases, yes, especially when local population levels have suddenly spiked - this can be due to immigration (so may tie back to the EU for those who want to argue that).
What I'm really saying is that it's more difficult for them to plan well.

I don't think it's much to do with EU migration, as there are almost as many Brits in other EU countries as other EU citizens in the UK; the net migration figure isn't all that impressive, but yes, as with many processes, there are unpredictable short term spikes within long term trends. Maybe migration from outside the EU has had an effect, but even so; there are things that governments have known for a long time, like the demographic 'timebomb', easier and increased international travel which is always likely to lead to migration, the economic changes that have seen people moving to the London area and other big cities and so on. Yes, it's difficult to plan, but that's why we have universities, reserch institutes and the like. Perhaps it's more the case that short term political expedience trumps long term planning.

[xoggoth]

Lots of factors in NHS problems. On the other hand, the problem of shortage of school places really is largely to do with EU membership.

Immigration is causing shortage of school places. But the BBC doesn't want to know – Telegraph Blogs

[doodab]

Yes, it's difficult to plan, but that's why we have universities, reserch institutes and the like. Perhaps it's more the case that short term political expedience trumps long term planning.

I think a bigger factor has been repeated cost cutting "efficiency" measures that have simply squeezed excess capacity out of the system as it's considered inefficient. Ultimately the NHS has been pared to the bone. Arguably it doesn't need three times as many beds per capita as it has but it could probably do with a few more.

[sasguru]

Germany, France and Switzerland have higher numbers of immigrants per capita than the UK.
But their public/private partnership health service copes better with this since immigrants don't get free care at point of service AFAIK. This also leads to less resentment.
Why can't we face the fact that it's our socialist system for health, council houses and education that causes most of the problems ascribed to immigration?
You don't have these problems in the US where everyone has to pay something for a service.

[xoggoth]

Maybe we prioritise care and have a two tier system where only essential treatment is funded,. Anything else is paid for or covered through private health insurance. Perhaps that would stop people filling up doctors' surgeries because of trivial problems.

PS Just unignored sas comment above and agree. France and Australia have 2 tier systems two.

[doodab]

Maybe we prioritise care and have a two tier system where only essential treatment is funded,. Anything else is paid for or covered through private health insurance. Perhaps that would stop people filling up doctors' surgeries because of trivial problems.

I don't know that would work. What starts out as a trivial problem (indigestion, in my case) can turn out to be a symptom of a much more serious condition (cancer), so it's better to get these things looked at ASAP, otherwise you end up with later diagnosis of the serious conditions and that's going to cost more money long term I think.

We'd do well to look at public health more holistically. The health service is for already sick people, we should pay more attention to stopping people getting sick in the first place by building a less stressful and unpleasant world. Less work, more parks, more time to cook and eat healthy food etc.

[Gittins Gal]

Or bring back Gricer.

For the hundredth time, I AM NOT, NEVER HAVE BEEN, AND NEVER WILL BE this Gricer bot that you're all so obsessed with. Neither, for that matter, am I a female impersonator.